To think a big part of career progression is out of your hands?

[Foxonsox]

Primarily because whether you get promoted or hired for a position is in someone else’s hands. That person might be discriminatory, they might want their friend to have the job, they may not like you personally etc. so in spite of how hard you may work and that you can do your job exceptionally better than all other candidates, it can be irrelevant if the person promoting/hiring doesn’t want you to have the job for their own personal reasons? Not sure how common this situation actually is though

Your assumption that everyone you come across is likely to be bigoted is rather troubling and suggests you have some personal issues. If you aren't progressing in one company, then find a new job. Your own attitude and abilities will make a difference to your prospects.

Absolutely. About 20 years ago I missed out on a job I desperately desperately wanted and had been doing in an active capacity well for eight months basically because my boss wanted to give the job to his mate. I was absolutely gutted and it took years to get over it.

I think its good to put your best foot forward, always try for promotions, be ambitious and do everything you can. But ultimately if you don't get the job don't allow it to destroy your self esteem. Not all of this is in your control.

YANBU as there are often lots of factors influencing the decision which ARE out of your control, particularly the quality of candidates you are competing against.

However, in my (limited) experience personal likes and dislikes of those hiring haven't been the overriding influence.

This may be true for a specific job but not for every one you come across.
If one opportunity doesn’t work out there’s always another.

Your attitude is very defeatist.

I work in an organisation where promotion is done by a panel. As a manager I may influence but I am not in control and I don't even know exactly what all this working for me get paid. I want all those I work with to progress and develop, obviously for those more skilled it will be faster.

Yes there are some nasty people and shitty managers but not all. My manager is a football obsessed man who I have nothing in common with on a personal level but he has been my biggest cheerleader and worked really hard to get me promoted despite being pregnant. They're not all bad eggs.

I don't think I can totally agree. There is for sure in some organisations and some industries discrimination, but it is by no means the norm or universal. And rarely have I found that my prospects in a company rely so heavily on one person.

However, the most rapid career advancement for me was somewhat out of my control....I had some understanding and experience in a niche/specialist part of my industry, which quite suddenly about 5 years ago, ceased to be nice and became the raison d'etre for everything we do. I had been pushing for it for a while, but the whole industry, and related fields, not just my company, kind of evolved to urgently need what I do.... so for me there was a huge element of right place right time, which was out of my control.

I know that's not what you were really referring to, I don't agree that everyone's career is limited by people who hire or promote based on personal preference, but I do agree that sometimes elements of career progression happen by luck and chance.

if you came across this in one job, It would be disappointing but shouldn't hinder you progressing elsewhere instead. if its happening multiple times then I would think I (you) were the actual problem.

I think it partly depends on where you work. DH is in the public sector and when he does interviews there's a very strict process (eg, more than one interviewer, scores along a specific criteria for each candidate etc.)

Other things do completely depend on luck though I agree...especially if it's about the logistics of a job eg, you pass/fail your driving test at a time a particular job comes up, or your childs nursery only has spaces on particular days so you choose part time job A instead of part time job B etc.

I think circumstances absolutely can affect your promotion opportunities and there is no doubt at all that it's possible to lose out because of associations and friendships over which you have no control.

I've been battling for a senior position for a number of years. I'm very well qualified, very well experienced and anyone who knows me says I'm great at my job. I get all the praise and credit but when it comes down to it, I've lost out for the most spurious and irritating of reasons, three times over being bosses who appointed old friends over me (most times proving to be bloody awful at their job and upsetting countless staff with their lack of management skills).

I have pretty well decided to stay put in a middle leadership role which feels like a bit of a waste of my qualifications and skills but hey ho. I can't be doing with the pointless battle to be pipped at the post by a "friend of the boss". I think the higher up you go, the more the "friends club" is an issue to be honest.

I've been in jobs where you have to get "sponsored" by a senior manager before they consider promoting you. It is very hierarchical and depends a lot on personalities.

YABU

As it's very employer and workplace dependant

Also not everyone is discriminatory

At my workplace there are defined progression routes, they're tough so not everyone can go up, but it's documented and if you tick all the boxes you get the roles

It’s sounds a bit “conspiracy theory” really.
Yes of course it happens. But not everywhere and not all of the time.
And sometimes when you think you’ve been passed over unfairly, you haven’t. Like you mention being the best at the job and hardworking. But if it’s a promotion, it’s an additional skill set - which might explain why someone who gets on with the manager gets the promotion, not because they’re mates but because they’ve got good interpersonal skills that might be relevant.
If it’s happening where you work, don’t sit around and take it - move on!

I’m sure it does happen.
However in some cases I’m sure it’s easier to blame some sort of nepotism etc than accept you didn’t get a job based on your own shortcomings

I think there’s a huge amount of luck involved in where you end up. You can improve the odds though, by moving about, by being open to change and by actively looking beyond your current role.

A big part of everything is out of our hands.

It's Steven Covey's Circles of Influence and Concern.

You can get to the train station on time, but the train might be late.

You can be beautiful and funny and interesting, but the person you're attracted to doesn't feel the same.

You can train really hard for a marathon, and then someone's not looking where they're going the day before the event and bumps into you, and you sprain your ankle.

You can think your idea for a restaurant choice is the best, but someone else disagrees and the group goes with their idea instead.

We can control what we can control, and the rest is up to everything else in the world.

The examples you've given imply that you have a hunch someone's up to no good, but there's also a level of acceptance to come to around controlling what you can control, and accepting that you can't control everything.

I think it's more about a person's resilience. If you have the resilience to keep trying then of course you can succeed. You need to work somewhere for a while and make a good impression. Apply for a promotion. Get knocked back. Work on yourself. Change company. Do the same again. And keep doing that until you actually get somewhere. You can't get knocked back forever, someone somewhere is bound to promote you.

50/50 here, yes it's out of one's hands to a degree but I am a strong believer in one's attitude being the biggest contributer to success or lack thereof. Are you willing, do you stay out of the politics, do you deliver, all of those things count and affect your reputation. Yes there is a requirement to be compliant but that doesn't mean you need to be a brown noser or a walkover either. If your attitude stinks, even if you do a good job, you'll get nowhere.

@Camomila

I think it partly depends on where you work. DH is in the public sector and when he does interviews there's a very strict process (eg, more than one interviewer, scores along a specific criteria for each candidate etc.)

Other things do completely depend on luck though I agree...especially if it's about the logistics of a job eg, you pass/fail your driving test at a time a particular job comes up, or your childs nursery only has spaces on particular days so you choose part time job A instead of part time job B etc.

I've seen loads of folk in public sector go through this process only to find the internal or 'favoured' candidate got the job anyway. Eventually I got promoted by applying elsewhere and getting more money because of the 'natural progression of the role'.

@boomshakalacka

I think circumstances absolutely can affect your promotion opportunities and there is no doubt at all that it's possible to lose out because of associations and friendships over which you have no control. I've been battling for a senior position for a number of years. I'm very well qualified, very well experienced and anyone who knows me says I'm great at my job. I get all the praise and credit but when it comes down to it, I've lost out for the most spurious and irritating of reasons, three times over being bosses who appointed old friends over me (most times proving to be bloody awful at their job and upsetting countless staff with their lack of management skills). I have pretty well decided to stay put in a middle leadership role which feels like a bit of a waste of my qualifications and skills but hey ho. I can't be doing with the pointless battle to be pipped at the post by a "friend of the boss". I think the higher up you go, the more the "friends club" is an issue to be honest.

IME people who want a senior position usually get it. Some may have an easier time, or need to take more risks than others. Ultimately achievable if you're prepared to move jobs.

However people wanting to be promoted face the issues you describe. And as @Swonderful said you need the buy in of senior people.

My org has promotion quota and a whole lot of bureaucracy. It's also difficult to get much of a raise as internal staff. If I left and got re-hired as a new person I could get a 20K pay bump. As it is my salary will be compared with everyone else of a similar grade + experience : regardless of our actual job roles.

Many people have stayed as it's not too bad ; decent work life balance, job security and an above average salary. However for ambitious people wanting to advance...

*move companies sorry not just jobs!

I think partly YABU and partly YANBU.

I work for a very large organisation. There does seem to be a cadre of people from the grad scheme that get plum projects, international mobility and so on that gives them the experience to be promoted quickly. You can spot them because they've changed job title every 2-3 years.

I'm not saying they're not very good and that they don't earn it. They're good at what they do and easy to work with. I imagine they're a dream to manage.

But the rest of us have to slog away and the same opportunities aren't available. Or if the opportunities are there, somehow it doesn't work out as well. Hmm.

But on the other hand, personable people who deliver will probably do well wherever.

That said, people can most often put career progression in their hands by leaving. However, the main thing that makes this hard is the lack of competitors to go to. We lose a lot of people in London to competitors but not where you'd have to move 50+ miles to find the nearest competitor. Go figure.