To think that the driving test system is becoming ridiculous and is harming the economy.

[HunterGatherer]

Yes, I know there's a pandemic on but DS has had his driving test cancelled 3 times now . He has been waiting for over a year (after failing his first test for going too slowly around a roundabout, his instructor who was in the car with him was aghast).
DS is a nurse and currently commutes to work via 2 trains. He frequently has to turn down bank shifts in (in desperately understaffed units) because he can't get there. Quite a few of his friends are in similar situations.
I'm sure other industries are suffering as well. FGS Boris, get your finger out and sort this problem out.

@LemonCake79

I completely agree *@HunterGatherer*, the Driving Standards Agency should have waiting time targets to meet like everyone else.

It was terrible when I passed 23 years ago but now it's just appalling. No one wants standards compromises but there needs to be more tests available.

Really feel for your DS.

I agree. @HunterGatherer I have no advice, just sympathy and hugs. I feel SO sorry for anyone trying to learn to drive, OR get their A levels or GCSEs done, OR anyone who is at uni. Also, people starting a new job, and not being able to spend time with people 1 to 1 actually learning the job properly etc.

SO many aspects of life have been ruined because of covid. And frankly, I am sick to death now of certain public service departments using covid as an excuse for poor service.

I agree that the Driving Standards Agency/DVLA need to buck up their ideas. Not only with stuff like this, but the driving licences too. Some people are waiting on driving licences (after being banned for a year or 2, or losing their licence temporarily because of an Illness or epileptic fit etc,) and have been waiting 6 to 9 months or more!

They are right up there with many of the GPs when it comes to useless customer service. I don't understand why more isn't being done tbh.

A few people are saying 'where are these mystery driving instructors/driving testers coming from?' and 'Who is going to train them' and so on? But what I don't understand is where the F have they all gone, if there's not enough left? I can't believe they are all off with covid!

@fairylightsandwaxmelts

Always believed that driving lessons should be assessed on hours driven and skills learned rather than tests. Tests are stressful, people fail under test stress all the time and excel and drive perfectly otherwise.

But you can have two people and give them both 40 hours of lessons - one will be test ready after 30 hours and the other nowhere near ready after 40.

Passing someone to drive because they've clocked up a certain number of lessons is a bit silly, really.

Yeah, I get that poster's point, and it's a shame that some people who are really good drivers cannot pass their test, when others pass quickly, and they're shite!

But passing people on hours driven/skills learned is not a great idea.

Shame there's no middle ground tbh.

@user1471464218

At the risk of de railing this thread.....until 2007!!!!!! you could just drive without passing your test. Had to display l plates and no motorway driving, but essentially you could legally drive unaccompanied.

What country are you in? I am pretty sure this has never been a thing in the UK.

Shame there's no middle ground tbh.

Yeah, I agree - there's no perfect way unfortunately. Some people are excellent in lessons and will freeze on the test, others will struggle on lessons but have a fluke test and pass first time.

It's also hugely location/time/route dependent as to how likely you are to pass your test in my opinion!

A few people are saying 'where are these mystery driving instructors/driving testers coming from?' and 'Who is going to train them' and so on? But what I don't understand is where the F have they all gone, if there's not enough left? I can't believe they are all off with covid!

They're still working as normal, but because they couldn't work for ages over the lockdowns, they have a HUGE backlog of customers. All our local instructors have had closed books for months as they're just totally full up with existing clients.

So they're still dealing with all the people who turned 17 in 2019/2020, plus the ones who came of age in 2021, and then all the new drivers who are only just turning 17 now - and that's on top of all the older people who want to learn to drive too.

@LemonCake79

*@fairylightsandwaxmelts* it can't be hard to find some additional / temporary premises. It's been done with plenty of other public services eg Nightingale courts.

.gov tells me it takes 5 weeks to train to be an examiner and there are specific trainers in place. It really shouldn't be that hard to train some more.

This.

I can't understand people saying there isn't room in the test centres, like the test centres are anything other than a Reception / meeting place for the driver to pick up the examiner. That could really be done in any building, surely ? They managed to build all the Nightingale Hospitals which surely need a LOT more things that are specific to treating unwell people.

@HunterGatherer

Yes, I know there's a pandemic on but DS has had his driving test cancelled 3 times now . He has been waiting for over a year (after failing his first test for going too slowly around a roundabout, his instructor who was in the car with him was aghast). DS is a nurse and currently commutes to work via 2 trains. He frequently has to turn down bank shifts in (in desperately understaffed units) because he can't get there. Quite a few of his friends are in similar situations. I'm sure other industries are suffering as well. FGS Boris, get your finger out and sort this problem out.

My brother is a driving instructor. He works six days a week, sometimes seven and he has a waiting list. This is the same with his colleagues. There is a shortage of driving instructors, as many have retired and due to the age demography of driving instructors, that will become even more of a problem.

Virtually every week, he gets an email asking him to train as an examiner because there is a shortage. He has no intention of doing that, as he would be earning a lot less.

I'm not a fan of Boris but what do you expect him to do @HunterGatherer?

But do people want to be a driving examiner at the moment? Spending your working day in an enclosed space with loads of strangers? I doubt it. They also have to fund their own vehicles and fuel, and most are self-employed too. A friend of mine trained to do it pre-COVID and said you really don't make much once you take out all the expenses.

Agree, who wants to train to be an examiner during a pandemic, also knowing after it, when things go back to normal you are likely to be let go.

Why would an examiner need to fund their own vehicle and fuel? Are you getting confused with instructors, learners are tested in their instructors car or their own car. Examiners are also not self employed, they are civil servants (but not the kind that get cheese and wine while working).

Could he not just move closer to where he works?

This was Republic of Ireland.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts

A few people are saying 'where are these mystery driving instructors/driving testers coming from?' and 'Who is going to train them' and so on? But what I don't understand is where the F have they all gone, if there's not enough left? I can't believe they are all off with covid!

They're still working as normal, but because they couldn't work for ages over the lockdowns, they have a HUGE backlog of customers. All our local instructors have had closed books for months as they're just totally full up with existing clients.

So they're still dealing with all the people who turned 17 in 2019/2020, plus the ones who came of age in 2021, and then all the new drivers who are only just turning 17 now - and that's on top of all the older people who want to learn to drive too.

Never thought about this. Thank you.

Still, a shame the DVLA can't get their act together in other aspects though... JMHO.

At the risk of de railing this thread.....until 2007!!!!!! you could just drive without passing your test. Had to display l plates and no motorway driving, but essentially you could legally drive unaccompanied.

Never in the UK.

A voluntary driving test was introduced in England in 1935. The test cost 37½ pence and the pass rate was 63%. The first person to pass was called Mr Been. There weren’t any test centres and examiners would meet candidates at a pre-arranged spot, like a park or railway station. The compulsory driving test was introduced on 1st June 1935, for all drivers who started driving on or after 1st of April 1934.

@Shade17

Learners shouldn't have to take a test under stress, and no one should ever drive stressed, ever.

But driving IS stressful and you will find yourself in stressful situations. If you can’t handle that then you’ve got no business being behind the wheel.

I might have to drive while under stress but there's no situation in real life where I'd have to drive in the artificially stressful and deliberately offputting circumstances of an exam.

Dealing with total stranger sat there taking notes and judging me based on their asking me questions about the mechanics of the car which are totally irrelevant in the moment is not necessary for save driving - if I had a passenger being so intentionally distracting I'd tell them to be quiet or get out; similarly if I took a turn which was safe but not correct for my route I would just detour back nobody would be coming along to say I wasn't a safe driver.

The driving test process in this country is unnecessarily convoluted and full of artifical pressures, both in the test itself and the system around it: for example there is no need for a theory test to expire after just two years - very few other qualifications require such reknewal so soon after gaining them - it is nothing more than a money making scam so that any driver who does not pass quickly will have to pay for another because the wait is so long they don't have time to retest.

Has he tried booking in an area nearby that’s not so busy for tests? My DS was having the exact same problem when we lived in a big city. Waited 5 months for a test which he failed. Then the next test wasn’t for 4 months. He then rang up to see if there were spots in the small town about 25 miles from us and he was in about a month later and passed. Might be worth a try. If your DS can’t do that, he should ring up/look online daily for cancellations at his preferred test centre.

Half the problem is that people are desperately booking tests even though the new driver isn't ready for it.

Not only that - some people are booking tests without an instructor or car to take it in. DH had had loads of calls asking if he's 'free for a test next Tuesday at 11am, my usual instructor can't do it. Oh, and it's in Norwich' (we're in Manchester.

Why would an examiner need to fund their own vehicle and fuel? Are you getting confused with instructors, learners are tested in their instructors car or their own car. Examiners are also not self employed, they are civil servants (but not the kind that get cheese and wine while working).

Oops, my bad :)

@iklboo

A voluntary driving test was introduced in England in 1935. The test cost 37½ pence and the pass rate was 63%. The first person to pass was called Mr Been.

Mr Been Love that!

Dealing with total stranger sat there taking notes and judging me based on their asking me questions about the mechanics of the car which are totally irrelevant in the moment is not necessary for save driving - if I had a passenger being so intentionally distracting I'd tell them to be quiet or get out; similarly if I took a turn which was safe but not correct for my route I would just detour back nobody would be coming along to say I wasn't a safe driver.

The show me/tell me questions are ridiculously basic.

You do not fail the independent driving part if you take a wrong turn as long as you do it safely. If you take a wrong turn the examiner will give you directions to get you back on track.

It's going to sound silly but has he looked every day.

When I booked my test there was no availability, but I checked back every morning for a week and I managed to get a slot 3 months away- I didn't look for cancellations but my instructor had other pupils who we managing to get cancellations within a week or 2 of them failing their test, and others who were able to bring their test date forward by a few weeks.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Thanks

Yes rotten with the pandemic

@fairylightsandwaxmelts

^ this. I can't believe people are so accepting of a public service performing so poorly over such a long period.

Nobody is just saying "accept it" - but realistically, what are the alternatives?

As has been said, you can't have multiple people at one test centre all at once - they can only have a certain number of learners taking their test at each time slot for safety/space/parking reasons. When I learnt to drive, they staggered starting times by ten minutes so there wasn't a queue of learners in the car park, or all queuing up to do the same manoeuvres at the same time etc.

So what next? Build more test centres? Where? What routes are you going to use for the tests to allow learners to show enough knowledge to pass? They'll need to cover A roads, roundabouts, junctions etc. And lastly, are there going to be enough instructors and examiners in those areas to make it worth the investment?

They shut some down a while back in our area

Dealing with total stranger sat there taking notes and judging me based on their asking me questions about the mechanics of the car which are totally irrelevant in the moment is not necessary for save driving -

Show Me questions, during the drive:

When it's safe to do so:

Can you show me how you put the windscreen wipers on?
Can you show me how you activate the screen wash?
Can you show me how you put your dipped headlights on?
Can you show me how the side windows open

Totally relevant for a safe drive in the moment. They're not asking you to explain the workings of a combustion engine.

Tell Me questions, while the vehicle is parked up:

10. Tell me how you’d switch on the rear fog light(s) and explain when you’d use it/them. You don’t need to exit the vehicle.

Operate switch (turn on dipped headlights and ignition if necessary). Check warning light is on. Explain use.
11. Tell me how you switch your headlight from dipped to main beam and explain how you’d know the main beam is on.

Operate switch (with ignition or engine on if necessary), check with main beam warning light.
12. Open the bonnet and tell me how you’d check that the engine has sufficient oil.

Identify dipstick/oil level indicator, describe check of oil level against the minimum and maximum markers.

Indeed @iklboo. Really basic stuff. I could’ve answered those as a 10 year old! Anyone who struggles with those questions need not be on the road!

Its a mess - and it has just to worse, theory test have run out, cancelled tests and a lack of foresight. Another example of the government not really caring about the younger generation .