To think some people are ‘enjoying’ the pandemic

[Flynnqwer]

I’ve noticed an attitude amongst some people where they’re nothing short of praying for a new, more lethal, variant.

I’ve noticed it amongst people I work with and people I do a hobby with. Any discussion about going back to our workplace (we can work from home but not easily or particularly effectively) once the Government ends the restrictions on waiting from home, or back to our hobby in real life instead of on Zoom (the hobby is controlled by a central board who are following the WFH advice until it is lifted) are met with cries of ‘No! We can’t do that! It’s dangerous!’ and it anyone points out that, thankfully, it looks like the vaccination programme is working and Omicron is less severe, they come back with ‘but what if there’s a more lethal strain that appears and kills millions?’

My workplace has one element which has legally got to be done in person. I have had emails today from managers begging us to cancel said work thing and do it online. We cannot do it on line lawfully (it’s along the lines of witnessing signatures). We have told them no, we must go into the building for an hour to fulfil this function. They are saying that that is breaking the working from home directive, that it’s unsafe, and what if a deadly variant is discovered? Then we’d have to find a way around the law.

AIBU that some people are actively hoping that the situation worsens and we are locked back down? Why would anyone want this to happen?

@GoldenOmber

You seem to be keen to forget Ireland's statistics for most of the pandemic.

UK - 2207 deaths per million since the pandemic began.
Ireland - 1198 deaths per million.

Thanks to the government's half-baked approach over the course of the pandemic, including some talk of herd immunity by leading political figures, the UK has recorded Europe's worst rate of infection with 14,600,000 cases, which is an incidence rate of approximately 21,477 cases per 100,000 population to January 9th 2022. Ireland still lagged behind the UK at this point.

Sadly, many people traveled to Ireland from other parts of the world, including in particular the UK, over the Christmas period, resulting in a spike in cases.

In January 2021 the Irish government managed to turn the previous spike around through a near total lockdown. Current restrictions plus the ongoing vaccination programme are aimed at reducing transmission and the possibility of further variants arising.

So it would be good if we engaged with reality on these threads, rather than what we think reality should be.

I am interested to learn what you consider to be reality here, @TheKeatingFive

@TheKeatingFive

Yup, Ireland did everything the covid cautious wanted the U.K. to do.

One of the longest lockdowns in the world, glacially slow reopening (certain sectors only after the entire adult population were vaccinated), vaccine passports, mask mandates, very quick to reimpose restrictions and currently has an 8pm curfew for all hospitality and entertainment.

Yet right now it has a higher level of covid than the U.K., in fact one of the highest in the world.

So it would be good if we engaged with reality on these threads, rather than what we think reality should be.

I totally agree with this. I was always a bit perplexed by placed being allowed to open but only till x time. To me it seemed a bit the same as ‘you can order a drink but only if you buy food.’

Surely it’s as easy to catch Covid at 7.50pm as 8.10.

Ireland has a much younger population, lower BAME and lower obesity than the U.K.

If you adjust the figures for those, the difference in deaths becomes much less. There was a great article in the Irish Times early on that made the point that the best thing Ireland did for its covid death rates was export large numbers of its population to the U.K. in the 60s.

Having said that, U.K. death rates were very high during the first wave as a result of delaying lockdown. But that was then. The situation has continuously evolved since then.

Surely it’s as easy to catch Covid at 7.50pm as 8.10.

Exactly. The most bizarre thing about the Irish rules is that they apply to theatres and cinemas as well as pubs and restaurants.

Because, even though I don't really agree with it, there is at least an argument that people getting drunker as the night goes on in bars lowers people's inhibitions. But what difference it makes in a cinema is anyone's guess.

I think as well people don’t realise what it’s like for the people who support the lockdowns they so desperately want.

So they’re anxious for schools to shut, work from home etc - but I wonder if they really think about those of us going out to work to pick their shopping, deliver their orders, etc. What are we supposed to do with schools shut? Supernarket work still apparently ‘essential,’ so you end up basically working night and day to earn a wage at night and homeschool your kids, kids cooped up constantly because you don’t have a big garden or live in a rural area so can’t just ‘pop their wellies on and let them run in the fields!’

Sometimes hours at work dropped to minimum because work is forced to close earlier because of the huge danger of Covid (only after 8pm) so you’re struggling with less money than you’re supposed to have, support groups for your sen children not allowed to meet because of Covid risks even though it’s apparently fine to work alongside the same amount of people at work every day.

Lockdown doesn’t benefit everyone. And people sometimes really don’t seem to get that if it does benefit them, ie the airy ‘oh just use it as family time! You’ll never get this time again, take lots of walks! Take the time to learn a new skill, bake banana bread!’

Yes I suppose the argument re cinemas was that less people would be likely to go maybe? In practice it’s obviously stupid as people would just go earlier when it was open. So all the same people who would have sat in the 8pm showing would just go to the 6pm one. Therefore actually having little affect on spreading Covid if someone in the cinema had it.

A bit nonsensical really.

@Kanaloa, the thinking was that people would be seated in a pub to eat food, no crowding around the bar, no pubs jammed with people watching matches/standing room only, and people wouldn't be so drunk at the end of the night that they would end up in A&E needing their stomachs pumped or having been involved in traffic accidents. Hospital services are stretched very thin.

The opening time limits were devised to allow the hospitality industry to stay in business while still protecting those members of the public who insisted on ignoring covid from their own stupidity, as much as possible.

I suppose the argument re cinemas was that less people would be likely to go maybe? In practice it’s obviously stupid as people would just go earlier when it was open. So all the same people who would have sat in the 8pm showing would just go to the 6pm one.

Not if they were still at work or eating dinner at home.

Gosh yes how could you possibly get round eating dinner at home when there’s a film you want to see?

Oh yeah, you could just eat at a different time. If you wanted to see the film you could still to, it would make very little realistic difference.

And wanting to go out to eat or to the cinema doesn’t make you ‘stupid.’ Just human. Those types who would have gotten stupidly drunk still did - they just started earlier, went from pub to pub to avoid the drink limitations, and ordered chips in every pub.

The lesson from Ireland is that you can try your utmost to protect people from a deadly disease, but there are bound to be a good few people who are so stupid they simply won't let you.

Yes it does make you stupid, in exactly the same way that wanting to walk across the street while heavy traffic roars by makes you stupid.

Also selfish.

And wanting to go out to eat or to the cinema doesn’t make you ‘stupid.’ Just human

Quite.

And some people really struggle with the fact that others have different risk profiles than them. If you're in your 20s, healthy and double vaxxed, covid is a very small risk to you. You're at more danger of serious outcomes crossing the road than getting covid.

I think it was Freud who pointed this out "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility.” The pandemic gave the perfect demonstration of this. People still wanting lockdowns just before Xmas is just.....this. We are risk averse to a frightening level and I don't think it is healthy at all

I agree with this. Some people seem incapable of basic risk assessment and want everything prescribed for them; and fret when something arises that doesn't quite fit in with the rules, and they seem incapable of applying the most basic common sense to any situation.

For instance there was a thread the other day about someone fretting whether they could take their Covid+ child in a car whilst they dropped their other children off at school. Yes, technically it may be a rule breach but even basic common sense meant it was obviously unavoidable and zero risk (the risk was the children going to school and passing it on!).

@mathanxiety

The lesson from Ireland is that you can try your utmost to protect people from a deadly disease, but there are bound to be a good few people who are so stupid they simply won't let you.

Yes it does make you stupid, in exactly the same way that wanting to walk across the street while heavy traffic roars by makes you stupid.

Also selfish.

Of course it doesn’t make you stupid! Same as driving down the M6 doesn’t make you stupid despite knowing you might be in a 25 car pile up.

And when you’ve been out at work all day with customers coming in and out as they please and colleagues switching shifts in and out, you can assess the risk that seeing the new marvel movie at the cinema is hardly likely to raise your risk of catching an illness.

I’d actually say you’re more stupid if you can’t see that.

Also selfish.

Yes the young people, at no real risk from covid who've compromised their mental health, education, milestones and social life for others, who want to go to the cinema or for a meal out with a few of their friends.

Let's call these selfish cunts out for who they are

@mathanxiety

The lesson from Ireland is that you can try your utmost to protect people from a deadly disease, but there are bound to be a good few people who are so stupid they simply won't let you.

Yes it does make you stupid, in exactly the same way that wanting to walk across the street while heavy traffic roars by makes you stupid.

Also selfish.

Some posters are going to be stuck with ‘stupid’ and ‘selfish’ as mantras and continue to stay home in fear.

Fine if that’s what they want to do.

On the plus side it makes it easier for others to avoid them.

Same as driving down the M6 doesn’t make you stupid despite knowing you might be in a 25 car pile up

Honestly, if you think that's an accurate comparison at the stage of the pandemic, there really isn't much point in debating, is there?

And as for ‘selfish.’ Well yes! I am selfish. Most people are. I like doing things which make me happy, like going out with family. I want good things for my kids like being able to go to school and clubs, and support groups. That’s selfish (as in thinking about the self). But do you think people who want lockdown after lockdown are altruistic? Of course not!

They’re not thinking of me schlepping home after selling them their bread makers to home school four children of mixed ages and abilities so my husband who was with them while I worked can run out to work. They aren’t thinking about my little boy struggling because Covid had added another layer to the thousands of layers you have to bash through before accessing sen help in this country. They’re not thinking of someone like my mil who basically lives for her grandkids.

They’re thinking of themselves and their loved ones. Which is fine, because that’s what people mostly do.

@TheKeatingFive

Realistically, it's going to be young men who assume they are immortal if you allow people to assess their own risk.

That personal assessment of risk is going to involve eschewing vaccination in a great number of cases, because risk taking is encouraged as an approach to life if you're a healthy young man.

Or if you have accepted Donald Trump as your lord and saviour, or if you spend your time reading BS online about vaccines and chips or you are an easy target for conspiracy theories because of your low IQ and basic inability to understand science.

@TheKeatingFive

I wasn’t saying it’s a direct comparison. More just that it doesn’t make you stupid to admit there may be a risk of danger and still to do something.

For example driving, going out in the streets, certain jobs etc. There is a risk of danger in lots of things but we mitigate it best we can (driving carefully, using appropriate tools) and get along with life.

@mathanxiety

The idea that anyone is going to stop variants from emerging is crazy.

@SantaClawsServiette, actually, that is one of the goals of restricting transmission of the virus. Masks, vaccinations, restrictions on travel, restrictions on opening of restaurants, pubs, clubs, cinemas, schools, etc are all undertaken in order to prevent transmission and therefore mutation.

Well, yes, but for that to work, firstly, whole world has to do it - apart from Alpha, the other variants have emerged elsewhere - and, secondly, we have to do it forever.... I'm not prepared to do that. That doesn't make me selfish, it just makes me a human who wants normal, natural human interaction in their life before I die.

That personal assessment of risk is going to involve eschewing vaccination in a great number of cases, because risk taking is encouraged as an approach to life if you're a healthy young man.

ROI has the close to the the highest vaccination rates in the world, even among the young, so I'm not sure what relevance that has to here. Seems much more applicable to the US.

@TheKeatingFive nail on head! Im in Ireland too and the level of zealousness here was incredible. They also closed down schools completley with no provision for key workers or dcs with sn. I have family who work in hospitals including in icu who couldn't work during our many lockdowns.....

I've just had covid and come out of isolation today.

I was at the pub with a friend as part of a group two weeks ago. I started having symptoms/faint positive on lateral flow 5 days after pub.

She was OBSESSED that she had it. She kept getting negative lateral flows, refused to get PCR (until late this week). Nobody else at the table had it and I didn't even pass it to my own family.

She put herself in self isolation and messaged ME this week (with a positive pcr test and in actual isolation) about how hard she was finding it not going out and seeing anyone.

I told her to get a pcr test as she probably didn't have it bc her lateral flows all negative. She eventually made this song and dance about wanting to get a coffee with friends so posted plans in the group to organise it with BUT I MUST GET A PCR Test caveat.

Some people want all the drama and to make everything about themselves. My husband jokes she stole my covid 😂

I wasn’t saying it’s a direct comparison. More just that it doesn’t make you stupid to admit there may be a risk of danger and still to do something.

Yes, I totally agree with you.