With my staff?

[Ohdoleavemealone]

New to owning a business and over the past few months have put up with alot. Lateness at least once a week, on their phones alot and telling me the day after doing the rota that they can't do the shift they have been given, even though I message and ask if they want a day off before I do the rota.

So, Last week I called a meeting and told them that lateness and phones ran on a 3 strikes and your out rule from now on.
Tonight, one staff member told DH on his way out that he might be late tomorrow- no explanation as to why. If he is late tomorrow I plan to tell him that's a strike.
Another staff member has messaged to say something came up and can he start an hour later. I told him if he did it would be a strike (medical emergency aside) so he said he will be in then.

Now I feel mean! It's not unreasonable is it to sanction them for being late or taking the piss? Surely its what all businesses do?

I think you set an expectation right from the start (or as soon as possible) and stick to it. It will help if you make the expectation reasonable - that will differ depending on what your business setting is. And also if you play by the spirit of it too.

Randomly not turning up and messing on phones instead of working sounds like taking the piss to me.

I've generally been lucky with employees - but have had to say things sometimes. It's amazing how cheeky a few people can be!

You need to set the tone at the beginning kr as close to as possible. You need to explain the rules (policies) and yes now you have said what you have said you need to stick to it. As if they where kids. People take the mick where possible. But as long as you aren't asking too much of people then you are within your rights to expect them to be at work and doing the work at what you agreed to pay them

Why have you been putting up with alot? You are the owner - the buck stops with you. You lay out your expectations clear upon hiring. Three strikes seems fair enough, but are these minimum wage jobs? Maybe who you are hiring aren't invested enough. That's one reason there is a high staff turnover in certain sectors.

Much easier to start strict and then relax once you know you have good people who understand they are being paid to work. Much harder to pull things back once you have a reputation for it not mattering what the staff do.
I think you are right to have had a formal meeting with them now (and I'd record the date, who was present, and the minutes / points made and e-mail it to all of them as a note of the meeting). You need to follow it through now.
If you lose anyone through this perfectly reasonable expectation, then I would suggest they are not much loss to your business anyway.

Thanks all. Things started off well but over the last month or two they have started taking the piss and so I will be sticking to what i said.

@Didioverstep

You need to set the tone at the beginning kr as close to as possible. You need to explain the rules (policies) and yes now you have said what you have said you need to stick to it. As if they where kids. People take the mick where possible. But as long as you aren't asking too much of people then you are within your rights to expect them to be at work and doing the work at what you agreed to pay them

This. You need to develop some HR policies that you can share with your staff.

Please don't write the policies yourself. You need HR professionals and lawyers who understand UK employment law to do this properly and protect yourself. Get watertight legal advice for your policies before you share them with your employees.

I have seen my previous employers pay out many thousands of pounds - sometimes running into the hundreds of thousands - because they didn't comply with UK employment laws and thought they knew better. Do not do this OP!

This isn't The Apprentice! I think it would be fairer to lay these rules out in writing. That way you can follow a process should you need to give out warnings.

You are not mean! I also own a business and it really pisses me off too. I have one person who lives a 5 MINUTE WALK from work and STILL manages to be late!!!!

I’m not sure, legally, that you can have a 3 strikes rule

@RedHot22

I’m not sure, legally, that you can have a 3 strikes rule

If it's a business that has only been open for a few months, legally, the OP can have a zero strikes rule, as anybody can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all (as long as something relating to a Protected Characteristic is not stated) within two years.

Hire staff over 50 years old. I was in your position and it worked perfectly for me - more mature, less selfish, not addicted to phones and social media, a great work ethic, sense of humour, able to use initiative and actually liked working. I wouldn't touch anyone under 25 now - they are like zombies with the public.

@emmetgirl

You are not mean! I also own a business and it really pisses me off too. I have one person who lives a 5 MINUTE WALK from work and STILL manages to be late!!!!

Just Down The Road Syndrome. First identified about 20 years ago in a friend of ours who lived almost within sight of the bus stop into town, yet we invariably missed at least one after the agreed meeting time waiting for them to grace us with their presence until that time I got pissed off with it and left without them.

Have a word. If you haven't already.

@Kelly7889

Hire staff over 50 years old. I was in your position and it worked perfectly for me - more mature, less selfish, not addicted to phones and social media, a great work ethic, sense of humour, able to use initiative and actually liked working. I wouldn't touch anyone under 25 now - they are like zombies with the public.

And @Kelly7889, that sounds suspiciously adjacent to age discrimination.

Is there an actual law against age discrimination? If so it doesn't seem to be working wrt older empoyees.

Employees

Should be 3 strikes within X amount of time

Else you'll end up penalising long standing members of staff, particularly in industries with high staff turnover.

You need to get some hr support and expertise

Pronto

Or you risk unfair dismissal

You can outsource
And it’s actually pretty cheap
Just telephone consultations when you have a query to ensure you are keeping within the law

How old are your employees? I find I only have trouble with the under-25s. Most of them still live at home with Mummy and Daddy who do their laundry, cook their meals and pay for their WiFi. If they lose their job (for whatever reason), it makes bugger all difference to them as they still have a roof over their head and food in their belly whereas the consequences of you or I losing our jobs would be catastrophic.

Consequently, I find the youngsters straight up don’t give a shit. The real world consequences for any of their actions are pretty much non-existent so they just behave however the hell they like in the workplace and act like entitled little pricks when you pull them up on it.

I had a girl that I had to sack once as she was so unreliable she was losing us clients left, right and centre (we’re in a service-based industry) and she went absolutely bloody ballistic when it came down to it and I literally had no choice but to sack her. She screamed at me, called me a bitch, threatened to key my car, threatened to come round my house, got her Dad to stalk me on social media, it went on and on. Not once did she take responsibility for her actions, not once did she see the link between her behaviour and her dismissal. She just couldn’t grasp it at all. Frankly, all the carrying on she did afterwards left me in no doubt that sacking her was the right thing to do. My one mistake was letting her take the piss for as long as she did in the first place, only because I didn’t want to look like “the bad guy”.

Get some HR advice on what you can and can’t do and start being firm. They’re being paid to do a job not have a jolly.

Oh and I meant to add, if you’re in the UK, join the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB). It’s about £200 per year and as part of your membership you get unlimited free access to their employment law solicitors helpline. I’ve found these to be very useful over the years.

That is good advice about joining the FSB. You get free legal phone consults (I maintain our membership just for that) and they also have a good library of template policies, contracts etc available to members.