AIBU to give tenants notice so I can sell house

[Maggie178]

I didn't want to become a landlord. I bought a little one bedroomed house just before crash so was in negative equity. When family grew couldn't afford to sell and make up the short fall so rented out our house and rented somewhere bigger.
Currently have tenants in. There's always something that needs fixing, the mortgage interest rate has gone up, the tax bill has gone up, more regulations likely in the next couple of years. We want to get another mortgage but that mortgage will impact on what we can borrow. But I also feel bad giving someone the stress of finding somewhere else to live.
YABU - wait until they move out then put it up for sale
YANBU - do what's best for my family and tenants understand that's a risk of renting

Personally I think it's a pretty scummy move to kick tenants out if they're behaving themselves properly. The only legitimate reasons for serving notice are them not paying the rent, them not looking after the property or them annoying the neighbours.

"Scummy", really? OP is scum for exercising her right to sell a house that belongs to her? Ridiculous.

I cannot believe the posters on this thread who think that OP should get herself into debt and risk the stability of and security of her own family so that her tennant's don't have to suffer the inconvenience of finding somewhere else to live.

Yes, it will potentially be stressful for them but that's a risk you know you are taking when you rent a property. Does anybody honestly enter into a rental agreement in the expectation that this is now their home for as long as they want it? I've privately rented in the past and never in a million years would it have occurred to me to be angry with the landlord for selling as I was under no illusions about who the house belonged to!

Mumsnet is very strange about landlords. OP, it's your house. Sell it if you want to. Tenants may not legally have to admit viewings but most normal people will do the decent thing and not stand in the way of you doing a totally acceptable thing, i.e. selling your own house.

@ShinyS1

'She never went into this as a career landlord, it happened as a result of difficult circumstances for her.'

This shouldn't really be allowed, so many people rent their properties out as it won't sell or similar reasons, but it causes such awful insecurity for tenants. It should be law that people deciding to rent their properties have to allow that property to be rented for a minimum of 5 -10 years, and tenants should be made aware of the likelihood of their rental being sold at the end of it.

I rented for decades until we finally had the means to buy last year. I rented from 2 building firms and HA, as they were the least likely to ask us to leave due to needing/wanting to sell.

I also rented from an accidental landlord, and I can't tell you the stress we went through when he decided to sell after a year or so. It is not easy to find rental properties. At the end of the day it's the tenants home, usually their kids have friends there, they are at school and settled, often you can't find a house in the area if it's a village, quite often you've decorated and spent money on the property, despite knowing it's not yours, because it's your 'home'.

Having said all that, of course it's not the landlords fault, and you should sell in your situation OP if it makes financial sense, and I don't blame you for it at all.

Just wish more HA properties were available, and a lot less accidental landlords, who should really think long and hard before they decide to rent, given that they're highly likely to want to sell within a few years, or in some cases a few months. Definitely needs more regulation.

There should also be more regulation and swifter removal when it comes to nightmare, destructive tenents too.

The OP herself went into rented.

What should she have done? Left the property empty?

Plus she says it was during the 'crash' - 2008 - so has been renting out her house for ages.

It should be law that people deciding to rent their properties have to allow that property to be rented for a minimum of 5 -10 years That would see the availability of rentals shrink drastically!

It could work that LLs should make it clear whether they are offering a long term tenancy or make it clear that it is on a year-on-year basis.

That suits plenty of tenants anyway.

I would consult a mortgage broker first, you may be surprised. The rent is classed as income for your new mortgage. If costs have gone up and the rent isn't covering the costs anymore, then it's time to have a conversation with the tenant about a rent increase. Explain that you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, selling or a rent increase.
I've been that tenant where the landlord wanted the house back. I had two months to find somewhere new to live with a toddler and at the time, houses were being snapped up before I even had chance to fit in a viewing around work. It was beyond stressful. In the end I did get somewhere, I viewed it through the window and signed the forms. It turned out to be good in the end, but I felt like I was facing being homeless and the council were utterly useless at advising. They just kept saying "we can't help you because you have a job".
It would be better for your tenant if you sell with them already in there, although again, they may face a rent increase. You need to have that conversation with them.

We rented our house out twice while overseas.
If there had been more rules about renting we would simply have left the property vacant for those years.
It is already difficult and expensive to remove tenants who won't leave.

Renting is a more flexible system for both sides, we had more people give us notice than we gave notice to as landlords, which was absolutely fine.

We also rented ourselves while overseas. When we finally settled overseas we sold our property to the current tenants.

We were in the same position, accidental landlords.
Same tenant for 7 years. Kept the rent the same, did everything requested.
Gave notice with as long as you need back in August.
Moved out recently, house completely trashed. And I mean trashed.
We’ve really struggled to sell but someone has just made an offer this week so trying to get it over the line now.
Think of your own family and needs, no one else will.

@jimmyhill

Shitty thing to do, to kick people out of their home. Wait until they move out.

It's her house and she needs to look after her own family

@TooTiredToAdultToday

Some of the responses here are bizarre. Prior to this year myself and my family had been in a privately rented property for 4 years. We loved the house and it was both of our babies’ first home so will always be special to us but if the landlord had decided to sell during our tenancy we would never have thought he was unreasonable. I’m fancy we were expecting him to as he has said he was considering it around 2 years in. If you’re renting it’s no secret that you’re borrowing someone else’s house, it does not mean you become entitled to live in it forever more.

What a refreshing attitude 💐

Serve notice. When I've done it given six months notice rather than standard two months, delivered letter and s21 notice in person, and explained why we need property.

@jimmyhill

Shitty thing to do, to kick people out of their home. Wait until they move out.

But they could stay there until they die of old age

[quote soisealta]@Kshhuxnxk That should read "Many renters have no choice but to accept the instability of renting^[/quote]
Absolutely. It's a nightmare, always worrying that the rent will be increased beyond what we can afford or that we'll be served a section 21, particularly at the moment as there isn't a great deal of private lets to be had in our area.

Oh the irony - such a large majority on Mumsnet is so against landlords but when someone wants to stop being a landlord, lots of posters are against that too.

Of course you can sell, OP. Most tenants don't expect to live in the same property for life. Anyway it's much more common for tenants to give notice to landlords when their circumstances change and they want to move so it really goes both ways - renting is more flexible but also a bit more insecure.

Sell.

But worth talking to local estate agents who also do lettings, they might have investors on their books who would want another property with good tenants in situ. Also worth warning the tenants and giving them first refusal.

MN you is really strange about landlords, some of the comments are crazy. OP you need to sell your house so sell it

Give notice and let the tenant move out. The tenant does not ever have to allow viewings so better empty house for viewings. Yabu

It is unfortunately something that tenants of private LL's face, something that I've faced more than once.
What made a difference was being treated fairly and decently and the LL realising that they weren't doing me some massive favour by 'allowing' me to live in their property, but rather I was paying for that and it was an arrangement of mutual benefit, and understanding that just because they decided to sell (whatever their reasons) it didn't mean that things ran to their timescale (or indeed mine!) and that there were things beyond my control (availability, notice periods, affordability, work etc) that had a bearing on how fast things happened.
And also not being expected to stay until the last minute to save the LL a void period between me leaving and someone buying, being allowed to leave early when something came up without penalty (and I actually got a refund on rent paid) and that LL agreed to release my bond early to secure another property (after inspecting the house) - which they absolutely didn't need to do but obviously realised it would benefit them to do so.
All those things made me moving happen faster, which is what the LL wanted.

The LL that refused to fix things, tried to withhold my deposit for no good reason (as decided when I fought for it back and got it), refused to let me leave earlier without penalty because he wanted the rent to the last minute, and therefore meant I had to pass up a suitable property, and generally made things harder ultimately screwed himself over too as things dragged on far longer than they needed to - because he had the opinion that he was doing me a massive favour and insisted that things beyond my control were just me being awkward. And thought I should take the concequences of him deciding to be an LL in the first place and then needing to sell because he couldn't meet the obligation he chose to take on.

Serve your tenants notice but speak to them honestly and work with them to achieve what ultimately you are wanting to happen - the property vacant so it can be sold. Expect them to be disappointed and upset and accept that too, you have the right to sell the house but you don't have the right to tell your tenants they can't be upset and disappointed about that meaning they need to go through the hassle of finding somewhere else to live.

We have rented many times. Every spring each year we were given notice. We had a disabled family member who was distressed with strangers coming into the house. We also had a lot of medical props which filled a room or two. The decent thing would be to have waited until the house was empty for viewings. Our final landlord became enraged by covid restrictions. We were later stalked. It took a year and a restraining order to find peace. We will never rent again. Be decent op, offer extra notice and a good reference.
Oh and when I wrote about what he was doing to us we were the baddies so MN is not always on the tenants side!

Inform your tenants and work out a reasonable date for them to move out. During covid, I think you were required to give 6 months notice to tenants, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. Anyway, you might get the best price for it in the summer when the sun is shining and the flowers are blooming.
Holding rental properties as an investment just doesn't make sense anymore in our opinion. We are about to sell a couple.

Talk to them. Start a conversation. They might want to buy it. They might get freaked out and find somewhere else straight away. I'd give them a long notice period with no penalties for an early move and I'd talk to the estate agent about it. Some people like buying investment properties with good tenants in them. Having houses sold is part of being a private tenant. People's circumstances change

Finding a place to rent is really hard, if you are a low earner your best bet is social housing, being unemployed, no savings, with a child and an eviction notice will put you high on the list. The council will do nothing until you get the eviction notice.

Private rentals are now unattractive to a landlord, there are so many regulations, then you get taxed on income and capital gains tax when you sell

I'm a LL and I'd like to believe a good one. Problems are fixed as soon as they arise. I've never given notice - tenants have moved on as their circumstances change, family gets larger.

Yes, it is capitalism. I preferred to invest my money and get some income from it rather than shove it into a bank for 0.05% or bet on the horses. I need the money.

Two things I'd like to happen - the government to stop foreign investment in our housing market where flats lie empty and builders are encouraged to build luxury over practical. I'd also like a return to proper planning where really affordable housing is built. So 2-3 bedroom terraces with gardens, not executive homes. And for the government to invest in increasing the number of doctors, nurses, dentists and teachers so when development companies offer a nursery, primary school or surgery there are people to staff them. Otherwise it's just empty promises, often rescinded.

@crosstalk

You sound very fair. Well done.