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Bought a flat from hell. What now?

388 replies

LeonieLondon · 11/01/2022 16:57

I changed name and posting here to get more advice. Sorry long post
I recently bought what I thought was my dream flat in Kensington. For the past 14 years i have worked hard and saved most of my money. finally got on a property ladder with my dp (soon to be dh). We were renting a very similar type of place for the past 3 years (a flat in a mansion block) and had a very good experience- no noise from neighbours, no disasters in the flat, no leaks, generally no problems.
Turns out my new dream flat in a ‘sought after and prestigious mansion block’ has got zero sound insulation, there are not only every day neighbour noises (tv, chatter, laughing) coming from right, left and below (we are top floor, i insisted on a top floor flat because i thought i wouldn’t hear the neighbours…)

  • I can hear my neighbours boilers from every direction, imagine constant very loud amplified humming in your ear
  • below neighbours are fans what seems to be drum and bass and i hear bass noise coming from their place every day
  • said neighbours make my floor and walls shake when they walk- is this a structural fault? I can be sitting in my bed or on a sofa and it literally shakes
  • i am pretty sure they can also hear us stomp even though we are quiet
-there is a gas meter in a cupboard of one of the bedrooms which makes a very loud ticking/clicking sound every 2 seconds, again so loud and amplified. It would be impossible to sleep there or work while heating is on or someone turns hot water on (never even noticed this when viewing, but having lived in a bedroom with a boiler cupboard in it i wouldn’t even suspect that would be a problem) I am not even THAT sensitive to noise but i feel i am spiralling into paranoia.
  • the fucking helicopters?!?! There is a heliport in battersea over the other side of the river…

We are meant to be putting new floor with sound proofing but given that neighbours play drum and bass i think the sound will travel through walls and chimneys anyway?
I don’t want to be here, it’s a complete disaster. I am now paranoid about every sound and movement
Any advice please? Move? Wait? Do i even bother changing the floors, spending £15k+ on new floors only to discover no noise change?
I feel like this mansion block compared with the one i lived is so flimsy.
I feel no joy from buying anything new for the house- it shouldn’t be like this :(

OP posts:
Darbs76 · 11/01/2022 17:39

I agree with giving it a bit of time first before spending a lot of money on soundproofing

LuisaMadrigal · 11/01/2022 17:40

Noise is awful though. I've lived in London and some buildings really are unbearably noisy! Some less so.

I think renting it out for a bit might be a good shout? Or else loads of soundproofing, but honestly, I just think life is too short. I wouldn't pay what could be op's whole life savings on something badly noisy

MattDamon · 11/01/2022 17:43

How long were the previous owners there? A short tenure could suggest they couldn't stand the noise either.

DaddyPhD · 11/01/2022 17:46

@Lollipopslollypop

Speak to your neighbors, but if you can afford a multi bedroom flat in desirable mansion block in Kensington I'd suggest selling up and moving out to a nice commuter town, sounds like you can take the financial hit. I'm honestly staggered that if you can afford a place like that you wouldn't want a house after experiencing lockdown.
Not everyone wants to live in a house- We've lived in several flats and houses and to be honest, we prefer flats - especially if you want to live in the centre of one of the most exciting cities on the planet- A house in Kensington costs around 24 million, whereas a flat will only cost you 2 million.

True you can buy a nice pile in the middle of nowhere for 2 million, but I know where I and millions of others would rather live....

Arethechildreninbedyet · 11/01/2022 17:48

@Lollipopslollypop

Speak to your neighbors, but if you can afford a multi bedroom flat in desirable mansion block in Kensington I'd suggest selling up and moving out to a nice commuter town, sounds like you can take the financial hit. I'm honestly staggered that if you can afford a place like that you wouldn't want a house after experiencing lockdown.
A little condescending.

A garden isn’t the bee-all and end-all of life.

AtillatheHun · 11/01/2022 17:50

There is a lot that you can do in terms of new underlay and carpet / wall hangings / fully furnishing which will disrupt sound waves / vibration (the bass issue is more vibrant ion than noise often) and will be cheaper than acoustic insulation, which is relatively complicated in a mansion flat - ideally you need to take up the floorboards of upstairs and lay the fibre / foam beneath them - doing it from your celiling is much more work. (Former West London mansion flat owner; upstairs installed a macerator loo and kept very late hours so was cooking/ eating / clearing / going to bed and using said macerator from 11pm - about 2am)

TheHoptimist · 11/01/2022 17:52

Laughing a bit at the helicopters
Live not to far away- before were moved in I was told by the neighbours that I asked on the street that the helicopters were the biggest downside to living there.

bruffin · 11/01/2022 17:52

We paid a fortune for it, stamp duty alone was £68k because although i am a first time buyer my dp wasn’t.
First time buyer would not made any difference at that price

LeonieLondon · 11/01/2022 17:53

The old neighbours were a family of 3 and lived here for 10 years.
From the outside (and the communal staircase) the block looks really well kept and clean.

Forgot to mention- the neighbours do seem to have the movie sound system. So lot’s of bass, lots of shooting in the movies.etc. Not sure they would stop using their expensive sound woofer during normal hours because i complained.

I still have some furniture to be delivered as not everything was available immediately.
My boiler doesn’t look too old, but their boiler is making a racket. From what i have investigated online the flat below is very freshly refurbished to a modern standart and it’s a rental.

OP posts:
HUGanALPACA · 11/01/2022 17:54

I'm really sensitive to 'house noise' especially at night. Would really recommend Boots Silicone Earplugs - they really block sound out and you might feel better if you're well rested and not picking up on every noise. You sound very considerate so if any neighbours complain to you, I think you just have to shrug and blame the building because you can't live your life in silence in order to assuage other people.

Youbelongherenow · 11/01/2022 17:57

When you say you’ve recently moved - how long have you been in your new home? I do think it can be a mixture of anxiety, being in a completely new environment etc that can make it take a while before you get used to the different sounds you are experiencing.

Things that you can change - can the clicking meter be moved somewhere else? Can the boiler be moved/replaced?

The heliport - we lived very close to the same heliport and after a while didn’t really notice them anymore.

The tenants below - definitely would try find out how other neighbours find the music?

Last resort - if in a few months it’s still too much could you take the hit financially to cut your losses and put the place back on the market? If you can I would consider it. This is your home and you want to be able to live there as happily as possible.

onlychildhamster · 11/01/2022 17:57

@Lollipopslollypop she doesn't like the flat, not that she doesn't like living in Kensington or London. She was fine in the previous flat. I live in a flat in the london suburbs, its very quiet! My MIL's victorian terrace was way noisier. i have looked at kensington, a lot of the occupants are young renters and so it would be noiser. different from a lot of the bigger flats in the suburbs occupied by downsizers.

However, the good thing with rental is that people leave quite easily. I had a bat shit crazy neighbour who had an issue with me walking down the stairs at 8.30 am; she said i was heavy footed for such a tiny person. A year later, she moved out. Not because of us, probably because her flatmate got a french pug who was quite badly toilet trained so the flat share probably had to split. My lovely neighbours who lent me their space heater when my boiler broke are still here! I love the community in a flat block; the kids in my block play together, we can chat in the communal garden.

TopCatsTopHat · 11/01/2022 18:00

Building regs didn't used to include standards on sound insulation and so conversions/builds which pre-date that were utterly dreadful for this sort of thing (shocking isn't it). I can't remember when the standards came in, astonishingly recent (as I recall) given this is a well known issue, makes lives miserable and creates enemies out of neighbours.
But depending on when your mansion became flats you might still be under build warranty (10 years duration usually) for this aspect of the regs:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/resistance-to-sound-approved-document-e
Then you could pursue build warranty Co. for costs to rectify.

you have two choices, which is to bail and lose the 68k stamp duty but having made no complaints no issue to declare and likely an easy sale.
Or invest up to that amount of money in improving the situation. You need more information to decide which to do.

Research a decent acoustic consultant to identify the root cause of the sound transmission (possible culprits - RSJ's, floor board contact points, service ducts etc etc) then that will tell you what it will take to make a noticeable reduction and what the costs might be (sound insulation between floors is one likely improvement but there are many other possible others).

The property is dream forever home territory so worth fact finding before you decide. Constant intrusive noise is sanity destroying.

MamaGaia · 11/01/2022 18:01

@Lollipopslollypop

Speak to your neighbors, but if you can afford a multi bedroom flat in desirable mansion block in Kensington I'd suggest selling up and moving out to a nice commuter town, sounds like you can take the financial hit. I'm honestly staggered that if you can afford a place like that you wouldn't want a house after experiencing lockdown.
Why should she? If she wants a flat in Kensington then she should have one. We spent a lot of money on a riverside flat when we could afford a house elsewhere…not everyone wants the commuter belt lifestyle.
RandomMess · 11/01/2022 18:01

I wonder if the downstairs flat is minimalist with little furnishings to absorb the sound? Instead it amplifies it all.

LeonieLondon · 11/01/2022 18:02

I have been here from the end of November but had 2 weeks overlapping with the old place so was still sleeping there.
I think to move the clicking gas meter we would have to knock some pipes through the wall- so additional cost, but i might investigate this.

OP posts:
onlychildhamster · 11/01/2022 18:02

OP as the owner of a london flat, give it some time before you make your move. DH felt our flat was noisy as it was set back from a busy road but he now loves our flat (and doesn't want to leave ever, much to my chagrin as I want a 3 bedroom flat someday).

Woodlandarchitect · 11/01/2022 18:04

I am noise sensitive and when I design houses and flats I design them with this in mind!

I have had soundproofing on my party wall and it has worked. My anxiety is much better now.

Nothing should shake though. And the volume concerns me. Soundproofing is actually a building regs requirement. I would actually talk to all of your neighbours about the quality of the workmanship. I wish I could OP because I’d be over in a jiffy if I could.

I wonder if there’s a structural engineer who could do a survey and perhaps someone who specialises in soundproofing to have a look for you?

MyFirstHypnosis · 11/01/2022 18:04

sympathies, I have been through this and may go through it again.....(flat above has been empty for 5 years and we ended up actually buying the flat below - people thought we were crackers but the OP will understand....)

MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled · 11/01/2022 18:05

@LeonieLondon

Really don’t want this to sound snobby- a mutli bedroom house in a commuter town is no use for us- we are a couple with no children and won’t be having any. Our life and jobs are here.
Sorry - different point - won’t you get the stamp duty premium back if you sell? Or is that if you sell your other property? We had to pay loads more SD because I already had (a money pit) flat but we were told that if we sold it within 3 years we could get the difference back.
DaddyPhD · 11/01/2022 18:06

@LeonieLondon

I changed name and posting here to get more advice. Sorry long post I recently bought what I thought was my dream flat in Kensington. For the past 14 years i have worked hard and saved most of my money. finally got on a property ladder with my dp (soon to be dh). We were renting a very similar type of place for the past 3 years (a flat in a mansion block) and had a very good experience- no noise from neighbours, no disasters in the flat, no leaks, generally no problems. Turns out my new dream flat in a ‘sought after and prestigious mansion block’ has got zero sound insulation, there are not only every day neighbour noises (tv, chatter, laughing) coming from right, left and below (we are top floor, i insisted on a top floor flat because i thought i wouldn’t hear the neighbours…)
  • I can hear my neighbours boilers from every direction, imagine constant very loud amplified humming in your ear
  • below neighbours are fans what seems to be drum and bass and i hear bass noise coming from their place every day
  • said neighbours make my floor and walls shake when they walk- is this a structural fault? I can be sitting in my bed or on a sofa and it literally shakes
  • i am pretty sure they can also hear us stomp even though we are quiet
-there is a gas meter in a cupboard of one of the bedrooms which makes a very loud ticking/clicking sound every 2 seconds, again so loud and amplified. It would be impossible to sleep there or work while heating is on or someone turns hot water on (never even noticed this when viewing, but having lived in a bedroom with a boiler cupboard in it i wouldn’t even suspect that would be a problem) I am not even THAT sensitive to noise but i feel i am spiralling into paranoia.
  • the fucking helicopters?!?! There is a heliport in battersea over the other side of the river…

We are meant to be putting new floor with sound proofing but given that neighbours play drum and bass i think the sound will travel through walls and chimneys anyway?
I don’t want to be here, it’s a complete disaster. I am now paranoid about every sound and movement
Any advice please? Move? Wait? Do i even bother changing the floors, spending £15k+ on new floors only to discover no noise change?
I feel like this mansion block compared with the one i lived is so flimsy.
I feel no joy from buying anything new for the house- it shouldn’t be like this :(

I feel your pain.

We purchased a flat with a garden in a period house split into two, the upstairs was rented out and we were so swayed ( post Covid) of the massive garden we went ahead without thinking too much about noise.

Christ, the first night the whole flat was shaking. A single woman who loves music is renting it - the only saving grace is she works odd hours so will often be out at night and sleep in the day, but music blaring all weekend.

First thing I did was have a long chat with the tenant, and to be fair she agreed to not play the music as loud, and allowed me to have a look at the flooring, basically there's no sound insulation, bare wooden floors from the 19th century , one or two rugs and nothing else.

I spoke to the landlord and surprisingly he agreed the place should be carpeted with sound insulation underlay and he would pay for this- he asked the tenant and she refused!! Citing she hates carpet.

Its now been decided between the landlord and me that he wont re-new the contract and get the place carpeted and refurbished ( its in need of updating) he's also lined up a tenant, an older retired person friend of his family, so hopefully the club music wont continue .

We ripped out the kitchen and bathroom and refloored the flat so we did consider soundproofing the ceiling , but after spending around 40K, we didn't want the flat anymore. We got under the stairs sound proofed and our hallway- which did help and are awaiting the tenant to move out in a few months.

For the OP, you're in a tricky situation, we wanted to sell up straight away but were advised many buyers would be put off and of course we would have to lie why we're moving and face prosecution for that ( although I'm sure my seller did the exact same thing, but we can't be bothered to chase her in the courts , she's an old woman)

So we were advised we have to wait 6 months and use the time to try and mitigate the problems.

Sound doesn't usually present an issue to top floor flats. I would suggest you get a sound survey done. Ours was brilliant and identified our problem areas - get a few quotes, soundproofing can give some amazing effects, but you get what you pay for, so always go for the AAA option.

Second I would identify your neighbours and the noise, are they tenants, can you pressure the landlord, if they are leaseholders, bully them with the 'quiet enjoyment' clause in your lease, they are breaking it. Get the council involved, who will write to them and keep a noise diary , if they continue the council can take further steps like fines and seizing music equipment.

The nuclear option is let 3 months pass after your completion then start speaking to agents and sell up, it takes 3 months to shift a flat in London, so the 6 month thing won't be an issue.

I personally would look into with your solicitor taking legal action against your seller , all of this should have been declared, just like my flat.

Good luck,

Woodlandarchitect · 11/01/2022 18:08

Sorry for all my typos!! I’m so tired from work.

Ask the leaseholder about excessive noise (drum and bass) as this might be against the rules.

OP if you have any questions feel free to PM me!

RedRosie · 11/01/2022 18:10

Hi @LeonieLondon We live next door to the Heliport #waves. Its fine for us. We've got used to it and barely notice it now. Anyone living on the river will get helicopter noise over and above the Heliport noise, as most are obliged to follow the line of the river.

Sorry you are finding it difficult. What a wonderful spot to live! I would love to. I would go all out to make it work with insulation, rugs, bookshelves and overall cosiness. You may be hypersensitive to noise right now ... Give it a chance.

Neighbour noise - if it's over and above normal living - is miserable and can happen anywhere. I would tackle that neighbour by neighbour. Is there a management company? Ours are very good.

I wish you well and I hope it gets better.

DogInATent · 11/01/2022 18:10

Get the floor done by a specialist in sound-proofing. There's also wall finishes that have soundproofing qualities, and the cupboard with the gas meter can probably be soundproofed with acoustic tiles.

driftcompatible · 11/01/2022 18:11

Interesting you didn't notice any noise etc when viewing - maybe jt is anxiety amplifying things for you. See how it goes over a month and if it's driving you potty - sell. You said it's sought after, you shouldn't have a problem shifting it.