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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think benefits are a trap for abused women?

27 replies

EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:19

I dont have a lot of experience or knowledge of the current benefits system, but i fully support and respect it. However, there is something bothering me about how cmaimants are treated.

I have a scenario, two adults claiming full benefits (housing and ctax too) live in a council place or such, no kids (for simplicity).

She is needing to leave as the relationship has become volatile and she is very unhappy, her quality of life is poor and they are very unhealthy for each other. There is also some emotional or physical abuse, but not enough to raise alarm with evidence. She needs to leave to avoid her mental and physical health becoming worse.

But what are her choices really? Honestly?
If she is claiming and living with a partner or husband, she will not be able to get a job or it would end his benefits and make her support him. She doesnt want this as she would prefer to just leave the bastard.
How can she do it?
If she leaves before getting a job (if she is lucky enough not to be ill or disabled) she would not immediately qualify for housing or be able to go private (so again, how the fuck would she be able to get a job with no address?)
Those initial steps are not open to her are they? She seems pretty much trapped, to me.

Why does the system encourage dependency like that? Surely it would be better for everyone if getting off benefits was easier. This way lends people no autonomy and probably keeps many women subject to dependency and abuse.
It is almost like to claim benefits makes one irrelevant, or simply looks like a deliberate set of obstacles to hobble someone from moving forward in life.

So she can't do either thing, can she? She is trapped.

I am aware that in the UK the largest benefits claimants are pensioners and then in-work families, but what about this forgotten group? Dont these bizarre rules simply exacerbate abuse and a woman's inability to have autonomy? Are claimants only relevant if the have children?

OP posts:
EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:20

claimants

OP posts:
Citygirl2019 · 11/01/2022 13:25

This is the same for anyone dependent on a partner. It is the same for those on benefits or working where outgoings are high and they have no savings.

MorningStarling · 11/01/2022 13:26

I guess the answer would be get a job but have it paid into an account only she has access to. Given that she wants to leave the bastard and not support him, what does she care if it means his benefits get stopped? If the money is secure in a private account there's nothing he can do other than walk out of the relationship himself (will be able to go on benefits again, but be homeless) or get a job (if he's able). I guess in some instances there is a risk that he will get violent but then the woman has a "get out of jail free" card because she'll have all the evidence she needs to access support and emergency accomodation.

notanothertakeaway · 11/01/2022 13:27

If she is claiming and living with a partner or husband, she will not be able to get a job or it would end his benefits and make her support him She wouldn't be expected to support him, only the children (if they were living with him. And post-separation, I don't think her finances would affect his benefit entitlement

If she leaves before getting a job (if she is lucky enough not to be ill or disabled) she would not immediately qualify for housing or be able to go private Refuge accommodation, or local authority temporary housing

I've heard it suggested that people on benefits often cope ok in these circumstances, because they're already accustomed to living on a lower income

EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:27

and of course she is on benefits, she has no savings.
if she asked for a new place due to splitting with him, they would accuse her of being sufficiently housed. She couldnt go private as no guarantor or savings, so how the fuck does she get out?

the system seems to encourage dependency on men imo.

OP posts:
EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:28

As far as i am aware, if a couple splits whilst housed together, the system would stop all claims if one got a job, initially, which could plunge them into issues. I am sure many abused women would not fucking dare do this!

OP posts:
BeyondShrinks · 11/01/2022 13:29

You can declare yourself legally separate and receive two lots of UC while under the same roof - me and my ex did it. It wasn't enough to move out on though, nor did it help with the housing side

notanothertakeaway · 11/01/2022 13:29

if she asked for a new place due to splitting with him, they would accuse her of being sufficiently housed Local authority / social housing wouldn't refuse to entertain an application in the circumstances you describe

BeyondShrinks · 11/01/2022 13:30

@EleonorBronte

As far as i am aware, if a couple splits whilst housed together, the system would stop all claims if one got a job, initially, which could plunge them into issues. I am sure many abused women would not fucking dare do this!
Ex did indeed get a job while living under my roof, as we had declared ourselves separated it didn't affect my benefits.
TooManyPJs · 11/01/2022 13:30

You can claim benefits as a single person while still living with someone as long as you are no longer a couple. Lots of ex-couples do this when divorcing first example if both insist on staying in same house.

EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:30

surely she shoudn't have to wait for him to 'harm; her to get evidnce?

isn't her own mind and opinion enough to have the right to leave an abusive man before he harms her proper?

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 11/01/2022 13:31

Why can't this fictional person get a job. Its the same for anybody not able to support themselves. Somebody has to.

Theunamedcat · 11/01/2022 13:31

Your right it does keep abused family's together but there is help out there if she has no job she can request housing in a different part of the country where there is housing but of course that usually means not many jobs around our local housing association will usually provide a deposit if they can't rehome you and help you find private accommodation this scheme is available in other areas too but I don't think its uk wide

EleonorBronte · 11/01/2022 13:31

@BeyondShrinks i really didnt know this, thank you. It is good to hear.

OP posts:
SheikhMaraca · 11/01/2022 13:44

@Viviennemary

Why can't this fictional person get a job. Its the same for anybody not able to support themselves. Somebody has to.
This.

Very, very few people are unable to do any form of paid employment whatsoever.

People need to think more carefully about their choice of partner, whether to have DC with them or not etc.

It’s not the role of the state to save people from their own poor choices, and the more it does so, the more learned helplessness there is in society.

Itsnotdeep · 11/01/2022 13:51

Victim blaming much @SheikhMaraca

Itsnotdeep · 11/01/2022 13:52

and complete bollocks as well

ComtesseDeSpair · 11/01/2022 13:55

I don’t think benefits encourage anything except staying self-reliant wherever possible, tbh. Anyone who comes to rely on benefits for any reason is going to find the transition back to earning a living somewhat difficult, even if they’re struggling to manage on the benefits, because they’re constantly viewing work from a starting point of “how does the salary compare to my benefits?” rather than “does it allow me to pay my bills myself?”

Plus I’m not sure any welfare system can adequately foresee the myriad range of different circumstances that different claimants might be in and want allowances made for. All systems have to make some basic assumptions and have basic parameters.

Itsnotdeep · 11/01/2022 13:55

I don't know how many people don't work who are on UC, OP. You aren't able to claim UC if you aren't working (subject to some very limited exceptions - young babies, disability etc). your fictional woman who is single without children must be working already or she would have been sanctioned.

Isn't the question instead, how should the state support women to get out of abusive relationships rather than trap them in them?

And no, it's not down to the woman to avoid making choices - no one willingly enters into a relationship they know is abusive, and there are many factors which keep them in that relationship. Money shouldn't be one

Benefits should be a lifeline to people. They should be a safety net to those who are abused, disabled or unable to earn enough money to support them. They don't create learned helplessness.

SheikhMaraca · 11/01/2022 13:57

People need to take responsibility for their own choices.

TooManyPJs · 11/01/2022 13:59

Also if she leaves due to domestic abuse she would qualify for emergency housing.

Itsnotdeep · 11/01/2022 14:03

Like what? Choosing to be abused? Choosing to be left by a partner? Choosing to be disabled? Choosing to be made redundant at 55? Choosing to be out of work due to covid? What choices? I'm interested what choices you think people make.

Littlewhiteballs · 11/01/2022 14:05

As she has no children, I would get on spare room and find a landlord renting out a cheap room. My ex did this when he moved out. It won't be glamorous, but you can usually find someone willing to rent week by week so wouldn't need a huge deposit.

When the next UC payment comes in, split the money in half and use her half to rent the room. Cancel the joint UC claim, and put in a single claim straight away. Start job hunting like mad and take steps to slowly improve the situation. It's shit, soul destroying, and degrading but it is possible to get out. Been there myself and helped others in the same situation. Good luck to anyone going through it Flowers

WhatScratch · 11/01/2022 14:06

She needs to talk to someone like www.womensaid.org.uk/

They will be able to give her advice or direct her to someone who can. She needs to speak to people who can give her advice specific to her situation and the resources available in her local area.

notanothertakeaway · 11/01/2022 14:26

@EleonorBronte

surely she shoudn't have to wait for him to 'harm; her to get evidnce?

isn't her own mind and opinion enough to have the right to leave an abusive man before he harms her proper?

Yes of course. Anyone can end a relationship at any time

You seem determined to believe that being on benefits traps a woman in a relationship, and PP are saying that's not necessarily the case