Neighbours New Tree house

[Silvafoxa]

Hi,

Just some background. I have DC and we are friendly with neighbours. We live in a semi rural area but our garden is (was) completely private and we enjoy that! especially with lockdown.
There are no other neighbours in close proximity.

So our neighbours started work on a treehouse that is approx 10ft + in a tree at the back of their garden. Our garden and house wraps around the back of the garden.It is at the very bottom of their garden. The tree house is 5ft from out kitchen window and looks directly into it.

It’s all we now see looking out our kitchen window and completely dominates our view (I have shrubs and planting but nowhere nr 15ft to cover).

It also now blocks all light into kitchen. It’s a big shed on stilts with overlooking windows. With added fairy lights. It use to be pitch black outside our window snd it’s lit up in the evenings.

Since it’s been erected random adults have been up and looking through into our house (maybe unintentionally but it’s really not nice).

I spoke to neighbour who said it’s for children and to lighten up. They were very dismissive and said it’s staying.

I just think come summer it’s going to be hell with kids in there so close to our kitchen and patio. They didn’t put it nr their house probably for the same reasons I do not want it so close to mine.

Am I being miserable, it’s such an eyesore ?
Should I report to the council ?

@Silvafoxa

What makes it hard to complain is that i’m a single parent and feel isolated as it is. Falling out with my only neighbour really is quite a big thing. They are very rich and intimidating. I worked so hard to create a home for my DC and on the weekends off just do not need to feel I cannot relax.

That’s what makes my AIBU so tough. It’s unfair ppl are so inconsiderate.

This is exactly why they have done it. They are entitled and wouldn’t think to speak to you about it because what will you do.

Show them, find your roar!

@PoshPyjamas

If you think they're rich and intimidating now, just wait to see what they're like if you let them get away with this

This. You need to get angry.

Our neighbours have bullied for decades because they think they are richer and more powerful, and because they’re now old, and he’s survived cancer that they can literally do whatever they want, they can demand their neighbours do whenever they want them to do, allow themselves to be controlled, contained and deferential

I feel regular rage at our previous neighbour who allowed them over 9 years of dictatorship, totally at odds with all deeds and law and we’re now “educating them” via legal action.

We (and visitors to our house) have been threatened physically, had obstructions placed on our right of way, they would abuse and intimidate anyone they deemed as fair game.

Except WE ARE NOT FAIR GAME… we are richer AND more powerful than them. We’re not bullies or arseholes tho, but we won’t take their crap. They know this and 3 years on, they don’t dare try anything with couriers or delivery drivers.

Word is out all round the village that they’re getting their comeuppance and we have strangers apparently cheering us on and defending us to any of the deluded souls who think this pair of unmentionables are in the right.

We’re winning. Their day is over.

You have to get angry with bullies. They bully through cowardice

My advice is to research the law. Write again to them and point out that you are going to have to seek assistance from the council for the treehouse as it’s location is causing too much intrusion, and do it, same day. Don’t put this off

Your relationship isn’t ever going to be positive, but that’s on them. Take lots of photos and send these to the council too

Going down the lack of planning permission route is the way to go. These rules are there for this exact reason.

@Soubriquet

Not exactly private if it’s right outside your own kitchen window is it?

That doesn’t give the OP the right to photograph children in their own private garden. That’s why the OP needs to sort the treehouse and neighbour issue out. Photographing children, against privacy laws, is not the answer. OP needs to sort her own problem out, not create another problem.

Also you could just say to your neighbour that you think it contravenes planning law so have brought it to their attention and whatever they say you'll going along with. Moves the 'bad guy' to the planning department and away from you.

Report it to the Council planning department. With photos.

I wouldn't worry about falling out with such arrogant and outrageous neighbours. What will they do next?

In the meantime, get a very bright, movement-activated spotlight and shine it directly into the treehouse.

Remind them that the naturist group meets every Sunday and Wednesday and the swingers are Saturday and Thursday in the
Kitchen in the winter garden in the summer - hope the kids don’t mind?

100% report

YANBU. Utterly selfish fuckers.

It will probably be a headache when you come to sell so even if you could live with it, I'd address it now. Informal chat with planning then lodge a complaint if they are encouraging.

One of my friends experienced similar with a trampoline. One night it was inexplicably set on fire.

A real spate of spying neighbours at the moment. As you’re new to Mumsnet, you might not be aware you can search for similar threads to see if you can find advice given on all those other ones.

Definitely go to the council and do it now. The neighbours aren't your friends. One of tthe houses that backs onto mine has a treehouse type thing but not built around a tree. I don't know the neighbour apart from a couple of brief meetings at my front door. I would say we are on good terms rather than friendly BUT when he realised that his children were able to see into my garden and were shouting at my dogs, the children were immediately removed from the house and the next day it was moved further into his garden. That is what neighbourliness looks like.

@Namechangehereandnow

judge … you cannot film or photograph children in this way! It’s against privacy laws 🙄

This is not entirely correct. Children have the same right to privacy as adults; it is not illegal to film anyone in public, where there is not an expectation of privacy.

However, in that instance you must be aware of a focused photography could be in breach of other laws such as harassment.

However, within your own home there is a ‘right to privacy’ and so arguably taking photographs and footage would be a potential breach of privacy. However, due to the location and infringement upon the OP’s living space, documenting the effect of the treehouse on her would be unlikely to result in a successful claim of breach of privacy by the neighbours.

They may come and threaten you, though.

Children have no more right to privacy than adults though.

I doubt they will take it down or behave reasonably at all.

You asked them to block the window and they have even refused to do that.

When they built it, they knew it was 5ft from your window and would block your light - they didn't care then and they don't care now.

They are relying on you being intimidated and frightened to rock the boat.

This is so difficult- they are horribly selfish and awful but if you report it then your relationship will never recover.

You need to weigh up the options very carefully before you do anything. I had an awful neighbour dispute that honestly nearly killed me. The man was an absolute utter cunt. We ended up moving from what I had always thought was my forever home as it was impossible to stay living near someone who had so little respect for us.

Things you might be able to do to block it out are very mature ( and expensive) bamboo,extremely tall fence or a sail thing as suggested above.

Take some photos and email planning enforcement at your local council. Copy in building control too. It may be in breach of the regs, especially with regard to the size, proximity to the boundary and surface spread of flame.

You’ve done all you can to try to deal with this amicably. They sound horrendously entitled and dismissive, no doubt they feel a sense of superiority to the less well-off single mum in her new build house. I’m surprised that they have been quite so rude, but it makes it easy for you as you know already that there is no good neighbourly relationship there to salvage, so you has nothing to lose. Time for the big guns I’m afraid.

@Movinghouseatlast

This is so difficult- they are horribly selfish and awful but if you report it then your relationship will never recover.

You need to weigh up the options very carefully before you do anything. I had an awful neighbour dispute that honestly nearly killed me. The man was an absolute utter cunt. We ended up moving from what I had always thought was my forever home as it was impossible to stay living near someone who had so little respect for us.

Things you might be able to do to block it out are very mature ( and expensive) bamboo,extremely tall fence or a sail thing as suggested above.

what relationship?

Whilst I sympathise with you for having dick neighbours who are behaving very selfishly…I do think you have to own the fact that you bought a property with a tree placed very near the kitchen window. The potential was there….not that that excuses the way the neighbours are acting.

How old are the kids and how bad will it be to hear them playing up there? Are they normally badly behaved/antisocial? If not then I would suggest you stop worrying about what might happen this summer. The dread and worry about what you don't know is pointless and will put you on edge.

Is there any wildlife in your garden or the tree that would be disturbed by the fairy lights? It might sound desperate or nitpicky but if I genuinely thought some little birds were being disturbed from their routine by glowing fairy lights, I’d say something.

I agree with @Natty13 there ARE a load of threads on here, posted by people who will never do anything about their horrible neighbours or work colleagues. Same with the threads on the 'relationships' board, from women who say their DP/DH is being abusive and nasty and making her miserable, then as soon as most people (understandably) start berating him, the OP starts defending him, and coming up with a dozen reasons why he is actually OK, and he is ALWAYS a great dad...

Simple solution (if they were adamant they were having it) would have been to not put overlooking windows in it. They didn’t give you that courtesy so all bets are off and id contact planning.

... unless you were planning your own extension and could do without retaliation

Had the exact same problem, OP. I got it removed after a very long slog with the Council’s Planning Enforcement Team, so I advise you get onto them straight away. Don’t bother tipping your neighbour off - they will either say, go on then, or they will lie to you to tell you they’ll adapt it to make it more private for you (ours did the latter) and you will feel obliged to give them time to make changes. You’ll then waste more time waiting for them and then he angrier when they’ve made no changes. You’ve already spoken to them and they’ve told you they have no intention of changing it. That’s what you tell the Council.

You will almost certainly need to quote legal chapter and verse to the Council (we didn’t in our initial complaint as we expected them to know the law in their area of expertise, and the case handler at the Council got it wrong and initially told the neighbours they could keep their illegal structure!), so I strongly advise that you set this out straight away in your complaint. Don’t give the Council any scope to get it wrong or waste your time. Do not be concerned with looking ‘nice’ to the Council or bad for complaining, just be factual, explain why it’s illegal and the effect it’s having on you.

The case handler at the Council couldn’t understand that the tree house was a type of ‘platform’ which, under law, cannot be higher than 30 cm. If the neighbour wants this, they will need to seek planning permission and it is unlikely that this would be granted. So I would advise you set it out from the start.

I would suggest something along the lines of:

‘Dear Council,

I wish to report an illegal platform which is interfering with my privacy and right to quiet enjoyment of my property. [Describe it, how high, how near your property, the lights and fact that there are adults and children looking in to your garden AND house. The effect this is having on your family’s privacy and mental health. Fact that you are concerned that should you wish to sell your property this would turn potential buyers off. Explain you approached your neighbour but they were very clear they had no intention of removing it].

‘As you will be aware, the Government’s ‘Permitted Development Rights for householders’ technical guidance (updated September 2019) provides guidance on the interpretation of Class E of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (“the Order”) as amended. This provides as follows:

“Class E sets out the rules on permitted development for buildings etc within the curtilage of the house (see page 7). A Building has the meaning set out in the ‘General Issues’ section of this document and includes any structure or erection (see page 6)…’’ Clearly, the neighbour’s tree house is a ‘Building’ for the purposes of the Order.

Class E restricts the height of raised platforms within Buildings:

“A raised platform is any platform with a height greater than 0.3 metres and will include roof terraces” (Page 29)

The Order gives a non-exhaustive list of examples of types of ‘platform’ but does not give it a rigid definition. Nor is platform defined in the Technical Guidance, or indeed the Interpretation Act 1978. Clearly, therefore, the intention is for ‘platform’ to be interpreted using the ordinary and natural definition of the word. The Oxford English Dictionary defines “platform” as “A surface of area on which something may stand, esp, a raised level surface”. One of the examples in the legislation is “decking” which is a platform stood on by individuals. My neighbour’s tree house is clearly a platform subject to the height restrictions in the Order.

Please can you deal with this as above. I would be grateful to be kept updated on progress’

Best of luck!

@EvilPea

Simple solution (if they were adamant they were having it) would have been to not put overlooking windows in it. They didn’t give you that courtesy so all bets are off and id contact planning.

... unless you were planning your own extension and could do without retaliation

They didn't/don't care enough to have not put a window facing the OP's house. For some reason, they wanted to peer into the OP's house. Fucking weirdos.