To think a huge crypto bitcoin bloodbath is on the cards.

[Viviennemary]

I have thought this for quite a while. But surely it's any day now. How this crypto market is sustainable is a mystery. A lot of it is backed up by Tether a so called stable coin meant to be worth 1$ but it is suspected Tether isnt backed by anything. Its just printed tokens backed by nothing.

I dunno, we have been hearing it’s a bubble , it’ll crash etc for years and it does crash but recovers ( from what I can see anyway)
It is terrible for the environment though, all that energy basically wasted on mining coins etc but then you could I suppose argue that cash creation uses energy and visa cards etc do too.

I heard a good argument (imo ) against them in that they are supposed to be anti banks, vested interests, outside of society and normal monetary processes etc but they rely completely on modern infrastructure to exist and be used. They are stored on our phones and use electricity etc and so are just as vulnerable to social collapse as traditional methods of buying things.
Don’t know if this is a good argument against crypto but it sounded one to me

Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

I'm building up stocks of the next hot thing, magic beans.

[quote Zilla1]@DGRossetti I'm aware everything has costs and benefits and I'm aware of some the issues both regarding records and fiat currency too. I don't think paper records are perfect though have not seen any compelling value proposition for blockchain which is why I asked. If your standard is perfection as in the Windrush records then how many Bitcoin owners relying on the blockchain have lost access due to the loss of HDD/ memory sticks, hacking of wallet providers and so on?

I also understand what happens when I try and access old optical media. I recall the BBC Domesday Book had problems with the optical media storage which wasn't a great look given the analogue records it emulated have lasted for over 1000 years. The blockchain is decentralised but by its novel nature has no certainty about stability.[/quote]
If people do want to "invest in crypto" then it might be an idea to keep an eye open for blockchain-as-a-service type outfits. After all, in todays capitalism on steroids society, then everything and anything can be hived off in the name of profit. Why on earth would you want to run your own node when you can sub it out.

I would also expect to see places emerging that archived off the older blocks in the blockchain, charging for access if anyone really wanted to go back to year zero and recreate the blockchain. Bearing in mind this is one way the FBI were able to punch through the anonymity problem with bitcoin.

That's what I would put forward if I were still strategizing. Do want you want with it ...

As for Bitcoin owners who lost their stash after throwing away a hard drive ... we return to the point about understanding. For some weird reason, even though I only invested less than £20 back in 2012 I damn well knew then not to lose the keys.

Tulipomania bubble lasted c44 years?
South sea bubble lasted c9 years?
English railway mania arguably lasted c20 years.
Even in the business at the speed of thought era, bubbles (if it turns out Bitcoin and other coins and blockchain are bubbles) can persist for quite some time before they run out of bigger fools.

This thread is physically painful, and will date very badly.

@HTH1

This thread is physically painful, and will date very badly.

Why don't you spread your wisdom Superior One?

@HTH1

This thread is physically painful, and will date very badly.

Why?

Yes, please enlighten us all

I think the thread just shows how early we are in the adoption of cryptocurrency.

Come back in 3 years, the leaps that have been made will be astounding. It still sounds like a weird concept to others, but 5 years ago who would have thought we'd be using our phone to pay for shopping.

Thanks.

This thread is fascinating me and frying my brain in equal measures.

Well they said it couldn't be hacked and it has
It is not traceable, but the FBI traced a ransomware payment
The blockchain means the transaction is unique and can't be changed, but the FBI got Bitcoin back without consent of the wallet owner or the blockchain.
It is valued in other currencies. I don't get 20000 euro and think that can buy a Bitcoin, I know what 20000 Euro means. Nobody ref to Bitcoin without valuing it in a FIAT currency.
Central banks and governments can not operate society with anominous payment transactions. Think what that means, no taxing, no criminal investigation, no regulation. So as soon as it becomes a threat it will be marginalized.
It is computer code majority owned by a few 'whales' who manipulate an unregulated market to make millions.

I started investing in gold over 40 years ago - it has been the most stable commodity for me, and whilst it does go up and down it never veers wildly enough to bother me
I don’t understand crypto so won’t be investing…….

@HTH1

This thread is physically painful, and will date very badly.

Glad I'm not the only one who found it painful!

Don't bother with bitcoin - I've got these tulip bulbs, and you're on a dead cert to make a profit with them.

@sheroku

Yes, please enlighten us all

Sorry, you’re just going to have to DYOR (just as I have). Far too much here to unpack into a Mumsnet thread but many early adopters are going to do extremely well for themselves before the masses catch on.

This thread just reminds me of a widely circulated internet article from the year 2000 explaining that the internet is dying out due to lack of interest.

Oh, and there are cryptocurrencies apart from Bitcoin which aren’t mined or in any way bad for the environment. Many, many utility cases.

many early adopters are going to do extremely well for themselves before the masses catch on.

The very essence of a Ponzi scheme

I think I need some ibuprofen, and a lie down after reading this whole thread. I feel like the result of my brain trying to process the majority of what has been said here, would be best physically demonstrated by just throwing my tablet at the wall

@HTH1 yes I think that will be the case I can see it through some friends who have already done very well I think it is the beginning and could well be the biggest redistribution of wealth ever seen who knows. If I had put £10k into Bitcoin in March 2020 by October 2021 it wd of been £150k that’s just a small example of what friends did see how it goes don’t invest more than you can lose and enjoy the trip

It really is a pyramid scheme. The only money being made is from people losing money. They are not investing in anythin real or useful in any enterprise that is going to make a profit.

“all the Bitcoin miners went to a dormant volcano in Kazakhstan”

Come again?

The whole thing makes so little sense to me I can’t actually tell with confidence if this is a joke. I assume so?

Hasn’t China made crypto basically illegal? I don’t think crypto is a bubble but don’t think it will be allowed to exist without regulation, whatever that looks like.

Whilst I’m absolutely not saying regulated banking as we know it is without corruption, I do question those who want to trade huge sums in crypto with no regulatory protection - just shouts money laundering and trading in other illegal activities.

My understanding is that in general conventional currencies work because they at least loosley related to the value of tangible assets and in the final analysis backed by governments with the ability to levy taxes to support the economy. Crypto- curencies are backed by nothing more than sentiment.

Are they still related to the value of assets when the US can print 40% of all dollars ever in existence during the first year of the pandemic?

I have a shite understanding of conventional currencies because I just can't comprehend how that can happen.

I don't have any bitcoin (though I did and would use it again) but bitcoin can't just be printed on a whim (or carefully considered decision, who knows!)? There will only ever be X number of bitcoin in existence, in the same way there will only ever be X much gold.

Isn't it better to have a currency tied to something which is what it is and can't be 'doubled' every year on the say so of 'the powers that be' regardless of what you want?

I'm not saying one is better or worse, but I think we should all be interested in an alternative to the arguably broken system we have right now.

Are they still related to the value of assets when the US can print 40% of all dollars ever in existence during the first year of the pandemic?

Mainstream currencies can and do have issues because of this kind of thing. Hyper inflation and what have you. But they are backed up. And the American dollar has been the hard currency in the world for a long time. I've used it in countless other countries. When you don't want a Dong or a Kip, you use dollars.

The UK regulator has said that investors in crypto will not get their money back under the FSCS which guarantees £85K if a regulated company goes bust. There are a handful of regulated companies who offer bitcoin and others but they’re not covered for that asset class.
In other words, let the buyer beware.
This whole scene is fine as long as you don’t end up long crypto when the lights come up at the end of the party.