To think so many middle-class clothes are ugly?

[RoyalFamilyFan]

I admit I am hardly a style guru. But when I joined Mumsnet people talked about lots of companies I had never heard of like Toast. So I followed links of clothes posted and looked at the websites mentioned. And was shocked at how ugly so much of the clothing was.
Shapeless grey dresses. Black loose trousers teamed with black tunics which make the model look like she is a member of a cult. Shapeless brown t-shirts.
They are just so ugly. AIBU?

OP, some clothes are obviously more frumpy than others and I don’t disagree with you there, but so what? It has always been the way. Each to their own.

In this thread, you seem to want to polarise people in ‘class’ lines and goad someone to call cheaper clothes ‘tacky.’ Well, just as some clothes are frumpy, a lot of clothes are most definitely tacky. Miles and miles of mass-produced nylon crap everywhere. High streets full of dross. People walking round in stuff that doesn’t fit them. But people have to wear something. We are all victims of marketing in one way or another. Just dress yourself and don’t worry about anyone else.

@SealHouse I know the specs and haircut you mean! I think when it started people may have thought it made them look very individual and different, but it is a clear look now.

@Itsnotdeep

oh fgs ,another nasty thread berating middle aged women for being frumpy and unsexy (wtf is that about - you can only be sexy in tight clothes from New Look?!) .

and fwiw shapeless dresses aren't the preserve of the middle aged/middle class asos

That's not quite what its about though:

I'm old and also a hardline feminist and I hate the idea of "dressing for the male gaze" as someone put it upthread. But there's something very puritanical about this thing of dressing to disguise or obscure what makes you attractive.

It seems to me these clothes almost go out of their way to make women not look like women. I don't just mean not having short hem and necklines, its more than that.

The absurdly boxy shapes, the lack of structure, the reluctance to work with the natural shape of the woman's body the unattractive colours... it's almost like a fuck you to femininity.

But not in a cool punk or hipster way. Just in a really frumpy way. I just really don't like the aesthetic and don't really get it.

@MidnightMeltdown

What are 'working class' clothes though?

I bring you Asda....

Artificial materials.

Cam22 I’m addicted to my Aime joggers, so no .

@CrimbleCrumble1

*Hush! Now that’s a blast from the past!

Are they still around? confused haven’t thought about Hush since 2019!*
Blimey those purchases must be vintage by now.

I don’t actually own any Hush. I just remember the excitement about the wrinkly / gathered skirt back in 2018/2019…..

It’s far too expensive for me!

What the hell is a middle class brand ??? 😂😂😂😂 Do you mean middle age? As that seems more fitting 😂😂

I really dont think price is an indicator of a “middle class” brand as if that was the case who are designer brands aimed at. And throw away brands like PLT etc brands dont have a social class really except i guess certain brands that are heavily aristocratic

This post suggests lack of knowledge on brands/fashion/style/individuality etc overall bit of a silly thing to say.

Is there even really a class system anymore?? Theres poor/rich but class?? I guess that’s another conversation…

@assess dont take things so seriously

to me dresses over jeans was just awful and pointless. Wear a dress if you want, wear jeans if you want but together? Why?

Assuming the right combination, dress over trousers is a very flattering look if you're heavy set on the bottom and it's hard to dress your hips and thighs in trousers.

It's a western shalwar kameez.

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare I don't think I am criticising others tastes. I don't think anyone liked the dress I posted that I really love. Although I rarely wear them, I love quirky clothing.
But I simply cant see the appeal of shapeless grey and sludge coloured dresses. I do think it is a case of marketing and being seen to not care about how you look. Because I think without this, nobody would choose this "style".[/quote]
But surely you understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that the way you perceive an item of clothing isn’t necessarilly the way another person does. What you see as ‘shapeless grey and sludge coloured’ someone else sees as ‘floaty with tones of stormy cliffs at sea.’ What makes you think of sludge makes someone else think of moss.

The dress you posted that you like doesn’t look ‘quirky’ to me, it looks like the kind of wonky thing a child might cobble together from a table cloth as part of a primary school project to dress a wooden spoon doll. I couldn’t take an adult wearing it seriously, but each to their own.

You are being judgemental and assuming because something isn’t to your taste it can’t be to anyone else’s tone and failing to recognise some people will like tones, shapes and materials you see as hugely ugly/ unattractive. Your statements show a lack of flexibility of thought and very rigid thinking if you truly can’t recognise that others might see things differently to you and it’s not just a case of clever marketing brainwashing people but rather a difference in what different people find aesthetically pleasing or what kind of pictures/ associations different shapes, colours and materials might evoke in different people. Do you often struggle to understand other peoples points of view in other situations?

Actually looking again at some of the styles we're talking about, there's more than a whiff of 'modest fashion' about lots of them. Which I find depressing, not because I think we should all be showing acres of skin or wearing super-clingy stuff unless we want to, but because some of the styles almost read as self-conscious feminist posturing i.e. 'we're covering ourselves in sacks so everyone can see we're rejecting the male gaze.'

Possibly I'm reading too much into it and some will probably think I'm talking rubbish, but out of interest can anyone else see where I'm coming from on this? It's almost like these loose 'flowing' clothes have been specifically designed so that there's nary a curve or glimpse of flesh on show. It feels quite retrograde tbh.

assess dont take things so seriously

I was just looking at threads i'm on and wondered when the thread moved on to ass's.

@tetleyteafan

This thread has set me thinking, and the stand out coolest mum at the school wears huge wide leg calf length cord trousers, DMs, a lumberjack jacket that looks at least 3 sizes too big, and a beanie. If I wore that I'd look like Worzel Gummidge's grandad. She looks gorgeous. I can't even explain why. I guess there are people put there who look good in anything! Perhaps they are Toast's target market

I love the look of the midi length , amish type , dresses that were everywhere for the last two summers. I saw lots of people wearing them on really hot days. They looked cool in all senses of the word. I tried on lots of different versions. I am 5'4 and a size 12. They made me look a foot shorter and at least 2 stone heavier. If I had walked everywhere with a fan artistically wafting the dress backwards I might have been able to carry it off, but in reality I just looked awful.Fitted things look better on me. Tunics, really wide trousers, dresses without a defined waist make me look like I have joined a cult.

@CrimbleCrumble1

Cam22 I’m addicted to my Aime joggers, so no .

Joggers? Oh you mean jogging bottoms. They are a hideous choice for everyday wear. Hideous for special occasions, too, needless to say…

[quote RoyalFamilyFan]@KimikosNightmare I don't think I am criticising others tastes. I don't think anyone liked the dress I posted that I really love. Although I rarely wear them, I love quirky clothing.
But I simply cant see the appeal of shapeless grey and sludge coloured dresses. I do think it is a case of marketing and being seen to not care about how you look. Because I think without this, nobody would choose this "style".[/quote]
Yes, I think there is probably an element of this in the type of clothes you’ve described in your OP. The aesthetic is plain, simple, unfussy, utilitarian, a hint of craftsperson.

I think you're confusing middle class with what you think grown adults should wear. Some of those outfitted would look terrible on me at 50 but I could definitely see an edgy arty 19yr old in them. I

I don't agree @thepeopleversuswork I follow a book blogger on YouTube who wears a lot of Toast and it really suits her body shape. I wouldn't suit what she wears.

Joules and Boden is just regular high street made in china now, It's not really middle class anymore. It's more expensive than Primark and new look but that's it really

@Nottosure22

What the hell is a middle class brand ??? 😂😂😂😂 Do you mean middle age? As that seems more fitting 😂😂

I really dont think price is an indicator of a “middle class” brand as if that was the case who are designer brands aimed at. And throw away brands like PLT etc brands dont have a social class really except i guess certain brands that are heavily aristocratic

This post suggests lack of knowledge on brands/fashion/style/individuality etc overall bit of a silly thing to say.

Is there even really a class system anymore?? Theres poor/rich but class?? I guess that’s another conversation…

This is what confuses me too! And a PP has had me pondering what is a middle class job?

It’s now turned into an office wide conversation

@DrSbaitso

to me dresses over jeans was just awful and pointless. Wear a dress if you want, wear jeans if you want but together? Why?

Assuming the right combination, dress over trousers is a very flattering look if you're heavy set on the bottom and it's hard to dress your hips and thighs in trousers.

It's a western shalwar kameez.

Exactly. Women a bit fat, but not very fat loved this look for that reason. It was very flattering and made me look good, but was very comfy too.

@DrSbaitso

to me dresses over jeans was just awful and pointless. Wear a dress if you want, wear jeans if you want but together? Why?

Assuming the right combination, dress over trousers is a very flattering look if you're heavy set on the bottom and it's hard to dress your hips and thighs in trousers.

It's a western shalwar kameez.

Leggings under dresses should be banned.

@Cornisharchitect

Architectural clothes do not exist. Unless you’re in a skyscraper fancy dress!

Oooh that dressing gown sounds amazing @AngelinaFibres

Pale blue, really good quality towelling, extra long belt that doesn't fall out of the loops ever. £59.00 pre Christmas reduction. Ooooo its lovely.

@Volhhg

Joules and Boden is just regular high street made in china now, It's not really middle class anymore. It's more expensive than Primark and new look but that's it really

Correct.

@thepeopleversuswork

Then it’s not for you. Which is cool. But I’ve never relied on my clothes to make me sexy or feminine. I’m sexy because I feel sexual, I’m feminine because I’m a woman. I don’t need clothing to look sexy, because sexy is something I am. For me, not for anyone else. If I wanted to be sexy in something from toast I can 100% guarantee you that I would make it work, because sexy is to do with me - my mind, my body, the breadth and depth of my being.

I do agree with you that I don’t like the puritanical vibe, but that’s because it ties in with the purity spiral nonsense that’s going on in so many arenas atm and again, is very much tied in with misogyny.

That said, I’m in no way making any judgement on women who want to dress differently to what I like. I love fashion and aesthetics. I’ve worn some very high heels in my time and enjoyed playing around with high fashion, anti-fashion and everything in-between. But I do very much reject the idea that I owe ‘pretty/sexy/good looking’ to anyone, including myself.

I'm in my 60s and wear a lot of Seasalt tunics, mainly because they skim my rather sturdy middle, I also buy dresses and coats from Seasalt as they do a tall range, I'm size 14, quite slim apart from my middle and find these sort of clothes suit me best. Stuff from Toast would not really suit my lifestyle but I don't dislike it, the Toast swingy denim dress linked above would probably suit me if it was long enough. a lot from the high street is a bit on the short side unless I buy from the tall ranges. ``