To wonder if there is any point complaining to PALs

[01iv30i1]

I suspect everybody in the NHS just bands together if patients aren’t happy or feel there has been negligence. Saying it just informs future practise doesn’t really help the patient and sounds like giving off before it has even started.

Is there any point putting the time into doing it?

I complained to PALS via email. I expected to wait weeks for a reply but they emailed back almost immediately and sorted the whole thing for me within 24 hours which included the head of the particular department calling me to apologise and offer solutions.
I was impressed.

I complained to PALS when I received a letter following a biopsy, saying “the earliest possible appointment has been made for you with the oncologist.” Apparently it was hospital policy to give news on the diagnosis and stage of the cancer face to face. So I had ten days of worrying that it was terminal, until I finally got hold of a nurse who agreed to tell me. They now call patients to tell them, rather than sending out these letters.

I complained to PALS when my mum died. She had been in hospital and wasn’t coping on her own when she was discharged so my sister picked her up to look after her at home. She was concerned about her condition so called 111 for advice, paramedics came out to assess her and took her to the local hospital. She died the next morning, the doctors there were shocked at her having been discharged, bearing in mind her bloods and her condition. The blood results on admission to the new hospital were unchanged from her last set of bloods from the original hospital.

PALS (original hospital) said that her discharge was clinically appropriate and their reply was really very patronising. It was clearly not appropriate as she died less than a week later. As a family we assumed that her discharge implied that she was recovering, if they had told us that she was at the end of her life then we would have spent that time differently. Her death was shocking and unexpected, at only 62.

@01iv30i1

I suspect everybody in the NHS just bands together if patients aren’t happy or feel there has been negligence. Saying it just informs future practise doesn’t really help the patient and sounds like giving off before it has even started.

Is there any point putting the time into doing it?

Search for the independent health complaints advocacy service in your area. You will get a better response via them than you will with Pals. If you are Manchester based I can provide you with the details for that area.

All depends on whether your complaint is upheld eg you say poor practice and for your child to get what they need - if a doctor agrees you are correct and they didn't give correct treatment/equipment/follow procedures then yes they should follow up and correct it. However if you want a treatment plan that's not standard to the nhs eg something you have read about on the internet or your child's team think they are better off with a different course of action then you won't get much of a response. I have a friend whose job it is to look at these complaints and they take them very seriously but she says most aren't upheld because people are complaining about things which are unrealistic or beyond their control

Depends what the complaint is and if you raised it with staff at the time (or seethed in silence).

I used to work in PALs and you get some very odd complaints coming in. Some are taken seriously. Others aren’t (like the psychotic patient complaining they were restrained and medicated on section as they tried to leave, and wrote 4 sides of A4 describing events). Or the person who complained their tea was cold. Or that a consultant snapped at them when they disagreed with him.

PALS isn't a complaints department, they are a resolution service. Their focus is getting patients information and care untangled, clearer pathways and responsibilities and to inform training, procedural changes etc.

So yes, it benefits the individual as they help manoeuvre through the different layers of the NHS, guide the sorting of missing or contradictory information and generally make a complex issue more clear.

So they would be able the help you and yes, they are listened to, can help push through real changes.

U have a neighbour who works for PALS and she is often gobsmacked by some of the issues she has to deal with. But she is also very proud of the issues she sees through, with the patient/ carers knowing more about treatment pathways or departments putting in clearer procedures, which is often just better communication.

Unless it’s something really serious they all stick together. These people have no one in charge of them so they do exactly as they like, which for many of them is absolutely nothing.

Health care professional that has to respond to pals complaints

Here they are taken seriously, and cqc review our responses to them during inspections and they are also audited and reviewed by a separate department.

We discuss each at team meetings and each has to have a response

@ThinWomansBrain

depends what you're complaining about? I made a formal complaint a few years ago, received an apology for the treatment I'd received, and a commitment that procedures were being changed to avoid the situation I'd complained about.

Hmm, I was fed that line after a complaint. And then a few years later they perpetrated the same harm against me.

They don't actually change anything, it's just a standard letter they send to shut people up.

@FrankGrillosWrist

Unless it’s something really serious they all stick together. These people have no one in charge of them so they do exactly as they like, which for many of them is absolutely nothing.

Especially if it's really serious they cover it up.

@FrankGrillosWrist

Unless it’s something really serious they all stick together. These people have no one in charge of them so they do exactly as they like, which for many of them is absolutely nothing.

Who are 'these people'?

I complained about a non-consensual sweep being done to me during an induction, and was informed that a department-wide re-training would be happening as a result, so it can be worthwhile raising a complaint.

Well you can’t go back in time and change what is happened but by raising issues you can improve things moving forward. Whether it changes things for the individual depends on where they are in their treatment.

I have complained before (I have also praised a lot more) and always been taken seriously and changes have been made.

PALS helped my dad get the care he needed before he died. They were fantastic .

@FrankGrillosWrist

Unless it’s something really serious they all stick together. These people have no one in charge of them so they do exactly as they like, which for many of them is absolutely nothing.

Who are "these people"?

PALS are an integrated part of the oversight procedures and interaction with them is monitored.

They don't have a magic wand but they do do bloody good work.

I complained to PASS (Scotland equivalent) about an a&e consultant wearing their mask under their nose, got a wishy washy reply as expected. Been in a&e 3 times since and all masked up appropriately, but who knows.

My sil is a barrister who deals mostly in nhs negligence. I'm fearful she has my back if ever needed.

@user15364596354862 - I was in hospital for day surgery, and they realised that the letter about the appointment (a standard one) was "waiting to be typed" so hadn't been sent - after accusing me of not bothering to read it.

A more recent appointment did have all the documentation sent at the outset by email!

in my experience they are all on the side of the nhs - never really done anything just sympathised with me - they work basically for the nhs and funded by them so they all stick together when there is an issue

lh

I work in the NHS. Honestly depends on the concern.
if safeguarding, negligence omission of medical treatment/ loss of possessions then yes. If something that cannot be changed then not really.
we once received a pals complaint as we 'weren't listening' what the person failed to mention to PAls was that he had been verbally abusive to staff and one member had actually gone off sick as a result of his threatening manner. On further note Person whom had made complaint had been removed from GP practice due to threatening behaviour toward staff. Also when it was looked into, had complained to 3 different services also for different reasons
pals cannot help these people

They're usually terrible. Not independent mediators as they claim, but employed and controlled by the hospital; ingrained in it. They seem to want to defend hospitals.

Any instance of someone being upset at their treatment could be marked as "aggressive behaviour" by the hospital, resulting in further poor treatment and PALS (seems to be tasked with defending hospitals) making a point of this when responding to complaints. It's possible that the comment from bakedbeans refers to genuine abusive behaviour; it's also possible it was someone simply angry at their treatment.

In my experience what you said is right they band together, the gaslighting and lack of accountability is shocking. PALS are a way they get the heads up what you're intending to do legally so they can head you off and have their ducks in a row, complete waste of time and energy. If you want to pursue make a request for all your notes, go through them a d check if anything is missing and then see a solicitor.

Often this is what happens when people are pushed to the end of their tether, maybe it's time the nhs stopped gaslighting people.