Job Sharing Annual Leave

[Hibye23289]

Hi,

Just wondering about your opinions on this.

I got made redundant and I have 2 school aged dc and a dh at work, I was then was offered a part time job that I really wanted, minimum wage but I was just so glad to be back in work. On the phonecall after I had got offered the job the manager threw in that i could start at 9am rather than 8am aslong as I am happy to cover the other girls annual leave who would also be working the other part time shift,I had already said yes to the job and was excited so was slightly taken aback and said yes as it was thrown in last minute but then went on to be stated in my contract that we would both cover unless good reason not to.

We were working half a day each everyday and then recently changed to full days so I do 2 full days and she does 3 then we do 2 Saturdays each a month. Last year I covered all her annual leave and ended up working 3 saturdays a month for 3 months in a row aswel as every week day until 1pm until we changed to full days.

What I feel dont make sense is if theres the week off from school for example then I book my 2 days off she will need to cover them,then just say in the same week she wants to then book her 3 days off I would have to cover her,so I get 2 days off to then work 3. It doesn't make sense. We do get paid over time for holiday covered. I am just not comfortable looking to next year at having to cover full time what with having children and childcare. Of course the company think it's a great idea but aren't we just cancelling out eachothers holidays? Do I have any leg to stand on to approach work about this. Thoughts please?

Part of me thinks iabu so I am ready to be told either way.

If you get your statutory amount of holiday pro-rats and you are paid for the holiday cover time then I don’t think the company is doing anything wrong per se. If the arrangement doesn’t work for you, then that’s a negotiation between you and your employer. What does your contract say?

You probably need to add on the holiday cover you provide when working out your 'working year' and then check your holiday allowance is proportionately the same as full time workers, also that you get at least NMW for the hours your work. It's often easier to do the calculations in hours per year rather than hours/days per week.

Then you and your job share partner would need to agree when you can cover each other for holidays, which might be easier said than done if you're both wanting school holidays off.

A relative of mine had this type of arrangement for years, but hers worked quite well because one was a parent of school age DC and the other was an empty nester, so one wanted time off in the school holidays and the other mostly in term time when holiday prices were lower.

I had a similar situation at a job once. I worked 3 full days, other person did 2.5 days. If I wanted leave, I had to ask her to cover and vice versa. I’m not sure if I ended up being worse off; I still had holidays deducted but essentially just swapped a Monday for a Thursday, for example, so still ended up doing the same hours.

I didn’t want to query it at the time as I’d been unemployed for a while and needed the job. I left after about 4 months.

@ChrissyPlummer yes this!! I don't want to leave I work for a good company that I want to stay with but I am not sure if I am acting spoilt but I can't shake the feeling of it and I am feeling anxious about next year.

The other girl has children too so she will also want holidays off,I don't mind sharing holidays,like taking half a week each but I don't see the logic in me using annual leave to book my 2 days off to then have to go and work 3 days for her which is more than I would do had I not booked my own days off.

Work have rang me on 2 of my days off this week as the other girl is off sick,I have said I can't go in becausr I don't have anyone to get the kids at short notice but I feel already awkward for saying no. If the other girl gets 15days annual leave which works out to 5 weeks then I can't keep covering part of the school holidays full time. I'm just scared to object as I don't want to lose my job or cause issues

Also I emailed my manager asking if I could use my last day of annual leave next week and she said yes assuming there is cover? I have to then arrange cover I just want to request holiday and not have to sort out who is covering too

I get what you mean. To me it doesn't seem like you are actually getting time off technically as you are covering her when she's off so are just in essence moving your own shift.

As it's in your contract in not sure what can be done, maybe ring ACAS and ask them for advice?

@Hibye23289

Also I emailed my manager asking if I could use my last day of annual leave next week and she said yes assuming there is cover? I have to then arrange cover I just want to request holiday and not have to sort out who is covering too

If you're job sharing, it's probably a given that you'll have to cover for each other and that the employer would expect you to work out ad hoc days off between the two of you.

However, your employer needs to think about cover when neither of you are available, eg one of you is sick and the other is not available, eg if you have no childcare, or have appointments to go to. Or you just don't want to work on your non working days, you do work part time after all, so it's reasonable that they don't expect you to work full time.

Of course the company think it's a great idea but aren't we just cancelling out eachothers holidays

You both need to make sure you are being paid for the hours you work and an amount on top to account for the holiday allowance that you would have.

Looking at it simply, if you worked 2 days of 8 hours each week every week, they don't just pay you 2 x 8 x 52 x NMW, they have to add holiday pay on top, pro-rata to what FT workers get incl BHs. It's not the case that they take the working hours and holiday allowance of a full time worker and split it in two, you should probably both be paid something like 60% of a full time wage (adjusted for any difference in hours) to account for the fact you are both entitled to holidays.

This sounds really complicated to work out. Initially I was thinking you get your 5.6 weeks hol at 2 days per week (so 11.2 days) but if you are expected to work another 15 days per year to cover your job share partner's leave then you need to add that into your calcs, which gives you 12.8 days leave... But your partner works extra days to cover you, so will get more leave, that you'll have to cover... So your entitlement will go up, so their's will, so your's will 🤯 it's never ending! I've no idea how anyone works that out. Sorry. Not helpful.

Is it a big company, with a proper payroll dept? Can you go and talk to them and ask them to work it out with you taking into account the need to cover your partner so you do extra days as per your contract?

One company I worked with I think solved this problem by calculating the holiday pay rate of individuals based on their average pay per week up to the point of the holiday being taken - so if someone did lots of overtime their holiday pay hourly rate was actually more than their hourly pay rate. But I'm not sure if that's legal if you are required to do overtime by your contract, rather than choosing to do it. As you wouldn't be getting your minimum 5.6 weeks.

Unless you get more than the statutory minimum holiday allowance? Then the extra might be covered by the amount you get over the minimum and you won't be in that never ending calculation!!

I would try ACAS. In my case, I knew I wouldn’t be there long and they were an OK employer in every other sense. I took the job as I was applying for others and knew I’d need references so I didn’t want to make a fuss; it was a family-run business and the owners wife was HR/Payroll.

When your apply for holidays, do you put in the entire period you don't want to work, including your days off?

That's what we do at my work, to make sure we don't get asked to cover shifts when we aren't available.

So you can never have a full week away anywhere?

@SleepingStandingUp

So you can never have a full week away anywhere?

How do you figure that out? Do you think op's colleague deliberately always books holidays on the same week as op?

This arrangement blows my mind! Annual leave should be worked out by the hour for non full time roles. It sounds like you are doing 2 hours less per week (by starting an hour later) which makes up your colleagues annual leave cover. If you work that out as days (based on a 7.5 hour work day) that is 13.8 days annual leave a year, its just that you are taking it as an hour a day rather than in whole days.

I'd never agree to that.

Speak to Acas or join a union and get their help? I think if you are covering shifts you aren't getting the benefit of the annual leave. You should have just short of six weeks paid leave x 2 days a year. Have you added up how many days you have worked this year?

Thankyou for all of your help and replies! The more I think about it the more I have realised how daft it all is. This is also a massive reputable company.

So me and my work partner cover eachothers annual leave,so what js the point in taking my own annual leave to just work all of hers which is more days than I work?! I appreciate the company will say it works as I get paid overtime for hers but I would rather not work it and not paid the extra as someone said above where is the annual leave benefit actually coming into it.

So yes as I think 2 people said above I could potentially book my two days off but not dares go on holiday for a week as I made be needed which obviously that probably wouldn't happen as we would be fair and give notice.

Also to a comment above I've not actually booked time off whilst working full days as we only started doing this shift pattern around 4 weeks ago. I will definately look into this and speak to the other lady,as someone said above if I had my annual leave allowance plus her allowamce where would it end we would both be forever owed holidays. I will also know more in the new year when I find out my allowance,I'm sure they've got it all figured out of it all 'working' so then it suits them.

@FluffyBooBoo yes of course, brain fart from me.

Doesn’t sound like any job share I’ve been a part of!

A true ‘job share’ is 2 workers doing part-time hours that would otherwise be covered by 1 FT worker.

If that FT worker booked a week off, who would cover the role? That’s what should happen if either of you have time off.

Sometimes I’m sure it would make sense to swap e.g. she has a week booked off so you work FT that week, then take the equivalent extra days off in lieu the next week, giving you the whole week off.

But job shares I’ve worked, we’d make sure we didn’t book the same week off each, and there just wouldn’t be cover on the days the other wasn’t in. As it was an office job it’s not like stuff couldn’t wait half a week to be dealt with.

@NoSquirrels exactly! So really its like this full time position we are sharing comes with no annual leave as it is always covered,great for them but cancels out our own annual leave. The reason I am questioning if I have a right to be confused is that all the managers are under the assumption we just 'cover eachothers holiday' that's what they've been told and have gone along with it so I think if noone has noticed it's abit odd then maybe I am wrong. I work part time to fit around childcare and the sacrifice is taking a part time wage and the thought of then having to cover annual leave during holidays next year is making me feel stressed plus I really don't want to rock the boat and look like I am making an issue, the managers are all high flying, suited business looking men on big salaries.

I understand their arguement would be that I get paid extra to cover hers and maybe my pro rata'd holiday factors in covering her, I'm not sure but I would rather have a smaller annual leave allowance than cover hers, it doesn't make sense that I can book say 10 days off to then cover her 15 days. I am glad to others it seems abit strange too

It really sounds like you are not getting the holiday entitlement you should be getting. That's what you need to focus on and calculate.

You should have holiday entitlement pro reta'd for all of the days you work, whether those days are your contracted days or your days you are working extra, it doesn't matter.

the managers are all high flying, suited business looking men on big salaries

Yeah. Fuck that.

Complain! But first understand properly your pro-rata holiday entitlement.

Do you have HR? Ask there first.

Yes as soon as my new entitlement is allocated I will speak to hr etc. I am surprised nobody has picked up on this and even more so myself,they need to train more people in my job role so there is more wiggle room for sickness and annual leave. Thankyou everyone!

It doesnt cancel out your leave though I think you just need to sit with HR for them to explain it.

It seems to me this problem is worse on a week when you both want to be off, that’s when effectively you’d have to work your co workers days. Part of the solution would be to try and coordinate weeks to best work for you. But then collectively you could approach management and point out that if you were one full time person doing the job you’d be off so many days not working due to holiday, unless other full timers are expected to cover you? In which case could a full timer cover you also? It does sound hard.