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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think GCSE targets of 9 is not right in year 7

37 replies

setingscats4 · 17/12/2021 09:15

My son has just had his targets issued in year 7 based on CATS4 testing. He has targets of 9. In previous years schools in our academy trust only ever gave targets of 8 even if kids achieved 120 in all their SATS exams.

It feels wrong to target children with 9s as they can never exceed their target especially with the amount of mental health issues in kids due to pandemic. Our school say they have no choice as it was decided by the trust and they have to follow it.

Targets matter in his school as they have them written in all their exercise books and every test is logged against the target plus each terms school report highlights the subject in red if you havent achieved your target.

OP posts:

Betsy200 · 17/12/2021 09:18

I would speak to the school. I had a similar situation in Year 7. I do question the validity of the flight path approach and also the pressure it puts on young people.

DaisyWaldron · 17/12/2021 09:24

If it's a decent school, they'll modify as the pupil goes along. DD got 120 in her English SATS, but English is her worst subject at GCSE and she's likely to get a 6.

pointythings · 17/12/2021 09:28

It's completely counterproductive because it's based on bollocks data and it means that anything less than perfection means your DC ends up feeling they are underachieving. And that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Flight paths are notoriously inaccurate - children mature so much, they blossom at different ages, they develop unexpected talents as they go through secondary school. One rubbish teacher or one inspirational one can make a massive difference.

W00t · 17/12/2021 09:28

I agree, and we don't set 9s as targets ever in my school (because to get a 9, there's no fixed level of performance, it's the top 1.5% or whatever).

WhoopsWhatsMyNameAgain · 17/12/2021 09:29

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Mental health amongst young people is at rock bottom. We've just come out the other side of a school-impacting pandemic. How is targeting a Yr7 with 9 helpful for anyone?

It's great that they're seeing his potential and aiming for that but I'm not sure it helps the child to have such a build up of pressure.

I went to a grammar school and many of us got As, Bs and Cs. These days it seems they all get the highest marks. What happened to being ok with good marks rather than outstanding?

I would push them on it. Write to the governors with your concerns. Link it back to any statements they make about mental health in their prospectus.

JuneOsborne · 17/12/2021 09:31

The most annoying things about it, is getting that red mark for not 'on target' for years to come.

My Ds was predicted all 8s (school had the same policy of never predicting a 9 no matter how well you did in the initial exams that determined the grades) and it was soul destroying for a few years for him as he was wasn't getting 8s in the assessments in years 7, 8 and 9.

He did come out with all 8s and 9s though, so they were pretty accurate. Which is annoying but also a relief once they have those certificates!

Dalalalada · 17/12/2021 09:33

I couldn't agree more.
What a load of head fuckery bollocks.

TeenMinusTests · 17/12/2021 09:36

Ridiculous. In y7 the most it should say is 7+.
Even in y11 I think targets of 9 is setting up to fail.

Original poster

setingscats4 · 17/12/2021 09:43

I spoke to school and they said it is not their choice it is set by the academy trust for this year as no SATS. What would you do now go to head of trust?

Whatever happens my son has already seen his school report so he knows what the targets are as we opened it together. I was not concerned about opening it as i thought they couldnt give 9s based on previous years and knew effort would be fine.

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stingofthebutterfly · 17/12/2021 09:43

Our school has a range of targets (which I still feel is utter bollocks in year 7, but that's another story) so any of the higher achievers would get a target of 7-9. To just set 9 as a target is setting kids up for failure and a self esteem hit.

Original poster

setingscats4 · 17/12/2021 09:47

June - I totally agree he will be devastated if he doesnt achieve target and gets red on his school report.

I didnt send him to grammar school despite obviously high IQ because I wanted pressure free education after the horrendous last 2 years and knew with his personality he would want to excel and beat targets and now we have targets that cant be exceeded and potential worse mental health issues than at grammar.

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lanthanum · 17/12/2021 09:55

Totally agree. We weren't given the "minimum target grades" until year 10, but they've just been discouraging for DD, because they felt unattainable. Most teachers would not predict above an 8 in year 10, so her predicted grades fell short of her "minimum target grades". Meanwhile they keep going on about the target grades only being a minimum and aiming to do better.
I've asked the school to consider using 8+ instead (and 7+ would be sense in year 7).

Aethelfled · 17/12/2021 10:11

I got my daughter's baseline test results yesterday . Her school uses a graph, with percentages of likely grades from 1 to 7, so no targets set. She has for example, a 28% chance of a grade 6 for English, but also a 17% chance of an 8, or 9% chance of a 9. This seems to be a better system, as there is no chance of feeling as though she is failing, and shows what she could achieve.

W00t · 17/12/2021 10:17

After your last post, I would say sit and talk with him about this. He's intelligent enough to understand that the school is governed by the MAT and their choices, and the MAT is driven by the DfE rhetoric. That he is academically strong, but in order to succeed he needs to work hard too. That you'll be happy as parents as long as he makes an effort in all subjects regardless what it says on his reports about on/above targets etc. He can understand that a piece of paper isn't the sum of his achievements and efforts, and certainly isn't the main aim of education.
Keeping an open mind, always learning, enjoying life- these are what matters.

noblegiraffe · 17/12/2021 10:20

Email the school and ask why the bloody hell they are giving kids GCSE targets in Y7 when they are not even studying the GCSE syllabus? Are the targets all 9s, so not taking in individual aptitude for various subjects?

This is an absolutely bollocks, non-evidenced policy and should be strongly challenged. Ask for the evidence of both accuracy and benefit to 11 year olds.

lljkk · 17/12/2021 10:37

I am on the fence... done right, the target-setting is a vote of confidence in the kid - "You CAN do this". It's aspirational. Also it makes the school accountable if child doesn't achieve their potential. Not kids sole responsibility, but up to everyone around kid to support kid to achieve their potential.

As parents we usually have many ways of mitigating the apparent 'pressure' that might seem to come with a high aspirational target. This is what you could achieve if you want to work for it, not "You're a failure if you don't get there."

JurgensCakeBabyJesus · 17/12/2021 10:47

If he's bright you can explain to him surely that a target is just that, and there is no fixed mark for a nine, it's just the top 1.5% so all he can do is enjoy his studies and put the effort in that you've said he already does. Also focus on his interests and life goals, most employers long term will be happier with a well rounded 2:1 graduate than someone who stresses does nothing but study and gets a first. The top grade often isn't important. I'm not sure all children get stressed by knowing there are high expectations of them, I didn't. I got higher scores in my year 6 SATs than most of my classmates did in year 9, it was always assumed I would get top marks. I did, but the things I loved about school were the extra curricular things, sports, drama, choir etc and that's what my family encouraged.

pointythings · 17/12/2021 10:48

ljjk I have no problem telling a student that this is what they are capable of if they work hard and have the odd bit of a following wind. But setting a blanket target of 9s is not going to help a student achieve their potential, it's only going to add a level of stress and that isn't useful. In the current situation where there is no SATs data to go on, a school would do far better to tell the parent that they believe a student has [fill in academic potential] but that they have insufficient data and will build target information as time goes on and they get to know the student.

My DDs' school used flight paths because they had to, but at every parents evening we also got information on what their actual teacher thought was possible for them. Needless to say when it came to GCSE results, it was the teachers' predictions that proved the most accurate - 2 to 3 grades above flight path predictions for both of them.

Cocomarine · 17/12/2021 10:51

@setingscats4

June - I totally agree he will be devastated if he doesnt achieve target and gets red on his school report.

If his personality is to want to excel and beat targets, would the pressure of grammar cause him MH issues or allow him to flourish in the perfect environment for him?

He’s old enough - and intelligent enough by the sounds of it - for you to talk about how the school sets targets, and your concerns.

tunnocksreturns2019 · 17/12/2021 10:56

Oh my I hate these GCSE flight paths. My Y8 DS is aware his school expect him to fail everything (SEN diagnosed late), and as a result he feels everyone thinks he’s useless. So the lower targets don’t help anyone either.

lanthanum · 17/12/2021 11:00

@DaisyWaldron

If it's a decent school, they'll modify as the pupil goes along. DD got 120 in her English SATS, but English is her worst subject at GCSE and she's likely to get a 6.

We're in the same boat on that one.

Original poster

setingscats4 · 17/12/2021 12:00

Yes we have had the conversations recommended above and will continue to do so. I agree target of 9 wont cause all children mental health issues and may well not cause us any issues. However I think the reason for never setting above an 8 in previous years was agreed for good reason in case it does cause any issues and there was no good reason to change it. Even calling it 8+ would be better.

English SATs was a reading comprehension test so very different skills to GCSE English. One of my kids got 120 on SATs and was almost unable to write (certainly not essays) but was an incredible reader. Got much low GCSE scores and then only with scribe.

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ArianaDumbledore · 17/12/2021 12:14

This has been the case for DS2, he's Yr10 now and the way they tend to award merits means as he can't exceed, he gets fewer of them. Which in itself doesn't bother him, but last year the Achievement Director gathered all those with insufficient points into a corridor to tell them to do better(!).

He really struggles with English but is predicted a 9. A 5 might be a stretch.

Crunchytoastandbutter · 17/12/2021 12:17

I am new to all this as have a DC starting school in secondary next year who is behind in all subjects. Does that mean that in Year 7 they will be told that they are likely to only get a 1-3 or whatever the marks might be? Surely not - I can't think of anything more damaging to a child's already self esteem. So you can work as hard as you like but are unlikely to get above a certain mark - how despressing!
And agree - also very stressful for an able child expected to get top marks.

Original poster

setingscats4 · 17/12/2021 13:08

Crunchy - it totally depends on what school you go to. However in our case the school didnt give 9s pre covid so anything can change even if you choose the school for a system you like. Pre covid targets were set on their SATS now they are set on CATS. Some kids will score better on SATS and others CATS. For your son it may help identify an SEN such as dyslexia if it shows his potential IQ is higher than he is achieving in actual work. However I agree it is an awful system for self esteem.

OP posts:

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