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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Christmas plans, AIBU

53 replies

Thebig3 · 16/12/2021 19:46

So will try and keep this brief...me and 2 siblings. One sibling is very anti vaxx and believes many, many conspiracy theories about covid. He lives about 4 hours away from me and my parents so I have managed to avoid most of his ranting on the subject.

Anyway, this Xmas he wants to come up and visit (my parents and I havent seen him and his family for 2 yrs). Both our parents are 75yrs and both have underlying health conditions. I am CEV and was shielding. We are all triple Jabbed.

My brother however, refuses to be vaccinated and also refuses to test, says its against his beliefs to test.

My mum and dad are obviously concerned at the moment and have pleaded with him to do a LFT before he visits just so they can be extra safe. He is flat out refusing. I have now refused to see him as I have a health condition that would end me up in hospital if I got covid. I also have 2 children with bad asthma who are too young to be vaccinated.

My parents are feeling guilty as they haven't seen him and his kids in so long. I've told them it's not them that should feel guilty as all they are asking is for him to do a test....not like that are trying to force him to get vaccinated!!

Please tell me they're not being unreasonable requesting this!?!

OP posts:
RampantIvy · 17/12/2021 08:59

I think he's entitled to feel as he does about covid and the vaccines. That in itself does not make him 'deranged' hmm. It's an entirely valid personal choice, as many seem eager to forget

Why on earth would you think this? Why have we had several lockdowns then? Do you really think that disrupting education and messing up our economy was done for laughs?

Denying the existence/effects of Covid is in no way a valid, personal choice. It is denying fact. He is deranged

Absolutely.

Hope478 · 17/12/2021 09:03

@CactusLemonSpice

I think he's entitled to feel as he does about covid and the vaccines. That in itself does not make him 'deranged' Hmm. It's an entirely valid personal choice, as many seem eager to forget. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask him to take a lateral flow test.
Denying covid exists makes you deranged.
CactusLemonSpice · 17/12/2021 09:24

@RampantIvy

I think he's entitled to feel as he does about covid and the vaccines. That in itself does not make him 'deranged' hmm. It's an entirely valid personal choice, as many seem eager to forget

Why on earth would you think this? Why have we had several lockdowns then? Do you really think that disrupting education and messing up our economy was done for laughs?

Denying the existence/effects of Covid is in no way a valid, personal choice. It is denying fact. He is deranged

Absolutely.

I do personally think that covid exists. That's not what I was saying.

I think are also other words for 'deranged', how about 'anxious', or 'paranoid', 'talking about fears' rather than 'ranting'? These conversations are getting way too polarised and it can't be helping anyone.

MrsSkylerWhite · 17/12/2021 09:31

“Deranged: completely unable to think clearly or behave in a controlled way, especially because of a mental illness”.

Cambridge English Dictionary (there’s a paywall on the Oxford Grin)

Sounds pretty appropriate to this person to me 🤷‍♀️

CactusLemonSpice · 17/12/2021 09:37

@MrsSkylerWhite

“Deranged: completely unable to think clearly or behave in a controlled way, especially because of a mental illness”.

Cambridge English Dictionary (there’s a paywall on the Oxford Grin)

Sounds pretty appropriate to this person to me 🤷‍♀️

Oh, he's mentally ill! Better not invite him to Christmas!
MrsSkylerWhite · 17/12/2021 09:52

CactusLemonSpice

MrsSkylerWhite
“Deranged: completely unable to think clearly or behave in a controlled way, especially because of a mental illness”.

Cambridge English Dictionary (there’s a paywall on the Oxford grin)

Sounds pretty appropriate to this person to me 🤷‍♀️
Oh, he's mentally ill! Better not invite him to Christmas!“

Disingenuous.

He is not being invited because the result of his illness makes him a physical danger to others.

Hope478 · 17/12/2021 09:52

I absolutely wouldn't spend time with someone who was denying a pretty bloody obvious illness was going around and was refusing to take a test for it, because it "goes against their beliefs". Absolutely loony, putting others at risk.

Do what you want to do (no jab), but don't put my family at risk with pure and simple stupidity. No thanks!

ClaryFairchild · 17/12/2021 09:55

Tell him to be careful when he travels, you wouldn't want him falling off the edge of the flat earth he's on......

notanothertakeaway · 17/12/2021 10:00

He's an idiot for not being vaccinated but that's his choice

By refusing to do a LFT he is choosing to exclude himself from seeing you / your parents. This is on him, not you

Hemingwayscatz · 17/12/2021 10:01

I wouldn’t care so much about the vaccine because it only really harms the person themselves. I’d care about the fact he won’t even do a quick LFT.

Muchmorethan · 17/12/2021 10:07

I wouldn't see him but l don't feel you can push your parents to make the same decision.

They need to decide for themselves and not be pressured by either you or your sibling.

If they do see him, they have to live with the consequences of that decision and you then have your own decision to make about whether you have contact with your parents for a set time afterwards

girlmom21 · 17/12/2021 10:09

If he doesn't believe covid is real sticking a piece of plastic up his nose for 10 seconds isn't going to hurt, is it, because he's not going to have something that doesn't exist anyway.

I don't know why you wouldn't do that for your parents piece of mind.

Bagamoyo1 · 17/12/2021 10:14

YANBU but I’m surprised you didn’t all meet up outdoors in the summer, when Covid was low and the weather was lovely.

CactusLemonSpice · 17/12/2021 10:15

@MrsSkylerWhite

CactusLemonSpice

MrsSkylerWhite
“Deranged: completely unable to think clearly or behave in a controlled way, especially because of a mental illness”.

Cambridge English Dictionary (there’s a paywall on the Oxford grin)

Sounds pretty appropriate to this person to me 🤷‍♀️
Oh, he's mentally ill! Better not invite him to Christmas!“

Disingenuous.

He is not being invited because the result of his illness makes him a physical danger to others.

You can put it whichever way you like, the issue remains.
TaraSiligel · 17/12/2021 10:15

He is a biohazard. Tell him to stay home and you can enjoy Christmas with your parents.

CactusLemonSpice · 17/12/2021 10:18

@MrsSkylerWhite this is clearly not a sensitive conversation around the nuances of family relationships in the context of mental illness. No point in pretending that's happening.

HundredMilesAnHour · 17/12/2021 10:19

No testing = no visit. That's non-negotiable.

MrsSkylerWhite · 17/12/2021 10:22

Today 10:18 CactusLemonSpice

@MrsSkylerWhite this is clearly not a sensitive conversation around the nuances of family relationships in the context of mental illness. No point in pretending that's happening.“

What?
Because of his views, whatever their origin, he represents physical danger to vulnerable family.

Therefore, he should not attend. Simple.

Franca123 · 17/12/2021 10:22

Doing a lft test seems like an excellent compromise allowing the family to meet. Infuriating that he won't do that even.

SparklingLime · 17/12/2021 10:26

If he suddenly says he will do an LFT in order to come, I wouldn’t trust him given his beliefs. Also he’d need to test regularly once there.

Christmas plans, AIBU
RampantIvy · 17/12/2021 10:30

I'm inclined to agree with you SparklingLime

EileenGC · 17/12/2021 10:33

My brother however, refuses to be vaccinated and also refuses to test, says its against his beliefs to test.

I would tell him it’s against your beliefs to spend Christmas with unvaccinated people who also refuse to test.

Cherryblossoms85 · 17/12/2021 10:36

It's very sad the way this has divided families. I am fortunate not to be in this situation. I think if you're all triple jabbed the real risk of serious illness is quite low, and of course vaccinated people can still pass the virus on at almost the same rates. The additional risk to asthmatic children is by no means clear, as steroid inhalers in particular seem to be quite protective from the outset (I've looked into it quite a bit as have asthmatic kids too).
Doesn't change the fact he's being a bit of a twat.

Scandisaurus · 17/12/2021 10:53

And what belief would that be? The belief of being a twat?

This.

Don’t let him bully you. Make it very clear to him that you can and will only see him outside. Do not let him come near your parents, and support them in this. He has made his own choice.

SparklingLime · 17/12/2021 11:08

Selfish people like this put their parents in an awful position. Who wants to think their own adult child is willing to put them at risk?