To think this should be more widely talked about

[RobotValkyrie]

I stumbled on a news article about the Lancet EAT diet: some attempt to devise a sustainable diet for the whole world.
This article included an interesting criticism: that the proposed diet did not meet recommended amounts of certain nutrients.
In particular, it would only meet about 50% of the RDA of iron for women and girls of child-bearing age.

This got me wondering: just how different are men and women needs, when it comes to iron?
A quick Google tells me women (from puberty till menopause) need more than twice as much iron than men. This is obviously linked to menstruation (and pregnancy, and childbirth, which can all cause anemia). But I had no idea the difference was so stark.
This means that any dietary advice to substitute meat for plant-based alternatives (where available iron is much lower) is much more likely to result in adverse health effect in women, than in men. One size does not fit all. Women are extremely likely to need supplements (or suffer from anemia), compared to men.

I've never heard anyone advocating a plant-based diet acknowledge that difference. I have in fact been lectured by (male) vegetarians on how "people" really don't need that much iron at all. But the reality is that many women (and not just vegan/vegetarian ones) in developed countries such as the UK actually suffer from iron deficiency (whether they realise it or not. I only discovered I was anemic while pregnant because of a routine blood test)

YABU: everybody knows that and/or it really doesn't matter

YANBU: the fact women need more iron in their diet than men should be talked about (at the GP, at school), and considered whenever advocating dietary changes (be they for an individual, or for the whole population)

As a vegetarian of 30 years, I've known to take iron supplements. It's nothing new. So I would say YABU.

I agree with you, vegetarians and vegans like to lecture you that their diet is perfectly sufficient but in actual fact in many/most cases it certainly isn't. The fact that you can live with an iron deficiency (or the deficiency of the many dietary requirements we have that vegetarian food lacks in) doesn't mean that it is healthy.

I'm not sure anything can be done about it though because the fetishism veganism has attracted means it is "known" that it is a good diet, regardless of the truth. Plus there are constant moves to try to reduce meat intake even for regular people who have a normal diet.

I agree with you, vegetarians and vegans like to lecture you that their diet is perfectly sufficient but in actual fact in many/most cases it certainly isn't.

Really? You know very different people to me. My friends who are vegetarian/vegan know that they need to supplement their diet with iron and vitamin B12. I also use vegan Omega 3 and combined Vitamin D and K.

I knew that and I am pretty sure everyone I've taken nutritional advice from does. I've done martial arts for years and been vegetarian and the iron conversation comes up alot. I've never had an iron deficiency (been tested for various things over the years incl pregnancy) or taken supplements.

I always wonder why red meat is associated with men and women are more likely to eat chicken and fish...like those ghastly separate menus that existed in the past which had beef for men and fish for women. I also get irritated when I hear women say they don't eat red meat (not talking for religious reasons obviously) but dietary ones...

People can often be deficient in iron even when they eat plenty of meat, so actually I think it would be misleading to talk about it in a way that makes it sound like iron deficiency is a risk with vegetarianism or veganism but shouldn’t be an equal concern for certain people who eat meat.

I'm a meat eater but eat a lot of veg and vegan foods and a lot of the meat substitutes and milks are fortified with iron, B12 etc. I eat meat but take a supplement as I am prone to anaemia.

The vegans I know all take supplements. Presumably everyone eating a “plant based” diet needs supplements

Well I’m not vegetarian but I know that iron deficiency is a factor to consider when electing for that kind of diet. That doesn’t mean that people are necessarily aware that women have particular needs above and beyond that. I think it’s one of those issues that we see where lots of studies are done on men, lots of research conducted around male bodies and products designed for male specifications. It’s interesting when you start reading more into the gender bias of the everyday.

I agree that the fact that women need more iron should be more talked about. However, I'm an omnivore who has had issues with low iron, and as a meat eater it didn't necessarily occur to me I could still be deficient. In comparison, most vegetarians and vegans are very aware of the importance of getting the right nutrition and they know they need to be careful, so I think it's actually less of a problem there. Certainly it is good to be aware that different people can have quite different nutritional needs. I thought the discussion around vitamin D that came up last winter via covid was useful as well, for instance.

Spot on. I have problems with vitamin absorption due to the MTHFR recessive gene. I’m also celiac and have insulin resistance from PCOS. Being vegetarian/vegan is nigh on impossible for me, as my diet is structured around vegetables, lean cuts of meat and fish, some pulses, some fruit, some nuts. There are many health reasons why someone can’t be vegan.

I think it is acknowledged, at least by people responsible for actually doing something about food insecurity- when you look at UN documents and statements by NGOs, children under 5 and women of childbearing age are always highlighted as requiring special attention.

I thought everybody knew this.

I'm a vegetarian, I load up on, B12, C, D3, K2, iron, zinc and copper, Boron, magnesium. If I don't my energy levels plummet. I also do it for my bones

I’m a vegetarian of over 30 years, severe coeliac and also carry faulty copies of the MTHFR gene as are my 2 late teen DC

My iron stores were depleted long before I became a vegetarian due to my severe coeliac disease, I educated myself about supplementation when I became vegetarian and routinely take methylated forms of all B vitamins consequently as do my DC

As with everything in life you make decisions and take self responsibility hopefully, as my DC grew I taught them about their need for supplement support because that’s my job as their parent

Oh and I never discuss vegetarianism unless I am asked, certainly don’t lecture people but am happy to share my knowledge of asked

I think it’s a wider discussion than just iron. Men and women’s bodies are different and will likely need different ratios of many things. The only thing you’re really told about is calories. There’s also individual aspects of absorption etc that can mean even if you put the right amount in, you may not get the full benefit. I find it fascinating and I am surprised that given the importance of nutrition more studies aren’t carried out and accessible personal nutrition recommendations be made available. I as many people plod on and hope that generally I am giving my body what it needs but really I have no clue if I’m deficient in some things or if my diet should change and how.

I’m vegan and I take vitamins with huge focus on b12 and iron. I also track all my macros and nutrients. Have a lot of vegan and vegetarian friends and not one of them doesn’t supplement. I can honestly say I’ve never encountered a non meat eating person who hasn’t acknowledged this.

I'm pretty sure it's something everyone knows

I'm vegan and my iron levels were all good during my pregnancy etc
But I do know alot of women suffer from anemia who are omni
It's also fortified in all uk flour by law so it must be known
Some people just don't absorb vitamin and minerals as easily
For example b12 seems to be a problem for alot of people no matter what their diet is
But in general I take a multivitamin with iron
But I think everyone should take a multivitamin

I’m not here to comment on vegetarian or vegan diets, but it should definitely be widely published that women need so much more iron than men.

Especially where there is a scarcity, women should be prioritised for iron rich foods such as meat.

Surely, the point is that it's kind of irrelevant what educated vegans in western countries do re. supplementation. You can't scale this diet globally if it requires supplementation as it won't be possible for most of the world to go and buy supplements. Some sort of differentiated responsibilities would be needed.

@CurtainTroubles

Shock horror, something is designed with only the needs of men in mind.

Exactly.

Personally I eat an omnivore diet and I don't take supplements, I've had my bloods tested and I'm not lacking an vitamins etc. Health conditions aside, if you need to take a supplement then your diet is not balanced, if you are limiting foods for social reasons (rather than due to a medical condition) then consider expanding your diet to include what's missing.

Yabu. People taking up and advocating for a fully plant based diet are sick of people whinging "where do you get your protein/b12/b6/iron."

We know. We and we dont need faux concern. What we need is more people whinging "why are you eating known carcinogens like red meat?"

Honestly, I don’t ever see how a plant based diet can provide the nutrients we need. Dairy, surely, is needed at least for protein and iron.