To think we need action on child protection

[stargirl1701]

The details of the latest cases have been horrifying. There seems to be no answer from any quarter as to how to stop this happening again. Funding is obviously an issue as both social workers and health visitors have unsustainable case loads.

I wonder if what is also needed is the view of the ordinary person. Do police officers and social workers become numb to their constant exposure to horror? I know my own reaction to the bruising on both Arthur and Star: it's clearly not a normal childhood bruise pictured on either child. I say that as parent of 10 years and a primary school teacher of more than 20 years experience.

The Children's Panel system in Scotland uses lay members effectively. These are volunteer roles in which enhanced PVG status is required. Do Child Protection referrals need to be assessed by a panel like that rather than be left to judgement of the over-stretched social worker team? Volunteers serve for 3 years in a local area outwith their own. The last recruitment campaign garnered 2000+ applicants.

We need a new approach. It is madness to carry on with a system that is so clearly failing to ensure the safety of vulnerable children. More funding would obviously help but there does seem to need to be reform of the system.

Little Star’s eyes, so sad... My little one is that age, always cheerful & smiling. Utterly heartbreaking.

I've been thinking of a career change recently and especially with the horrific cases that have been happening, have been looking at doing the think ahead social worker training scheme. It seems the entire industry needs more people who genuinely care and will speak up and be a voice for those that don't have one.

@Hertsgirl10 i really do understand. I really do. It actually is an impossible task cross party. This is my day job and I feel strongly about it as you can tell! People need to stop having kids in vulnerable situations. Our system can't cope. (I work in Primary Care- specifically SEN/Echp). Worse i believe in secondary.

So social services are assessed on the basis of how many children are under their care? How can this be true? Surely this is not an indicator of the quality of their work, but rather the level of deprivation in their local area and just how much things are going to pot in the wider society due to austerity.

It beggars belief that cases are closed quickly to reduce the numbers or that court proceedings are not being brought because of insufficient funding. This is not a business run for profit. This is playing Russian roulette with children's lives. I am digusted, ashamed and primarily utterly heartbroken for these poor little ones. Seriously, how do we change this? Do we go out on the streets? Vote Cons out? There's nothing more important than the welfare of our children.

We had social workers on radio in last few weeks saying they have no power. So if a parent refuses let them in nothing can do. If they ask to speak to a child alone the parent can refuse. The parent can shout at child don’t say anything and social worker has no right speak to that child in safe place or
Out of ear shot of parents. I thought that sort of very basic things would be standard. To give kids have a chance to express honest truths, but apparently not. Need some bloody changes that should be bare mim.

@JHMJHM

Ok I will say it again - women, when does it start being a societal problem.? When do we start raging about the fact we dont want perfume ads on tv and buses but want parent ads? When do we give a fuck about children being plastered on social media?when do we start really raging aboit porn addled men ? When do we stop blaming this underfunded group of social workers? When do we shout out and say to our communities STOP FUCKING HAViNG KIDS. All of them! Rich , poor, any colour or age.

@JHMJHM

Stop having kids then child abuse won’t happen. Right.

Great solution. Get that tv advert set up and go for it, sounds like you solved the whole issue.

Or shall we actually think of a real solution other than constantly telling people to stop having children?

The responsibility starts and ends with the parents.
Parents are making terrible choices bringing vile people into their kids lives.
You only have to read the step parenting posts on here it is obvious most people are not biologically equipped to bring up other peoples kids, they openly admit they don 't like their step kids, can't stand having them around, they are seen as a massive inconvieniance then wonder why the kids act up.
Parents need to raise their standards and keep their children safe. Education needs to be more available with regards to trust and safe keeping.

@Hertsgirl10 yes i do believe actively encouraging vulnerable families away from casually having kids would be a real solution. Yes I believe in having a desperately needed public debate and converation about the cost/stress/societal responsibility about having kids would be useful. Yes I think it would make a difference. Fuck knows nothing else is.

@Hertsgirl10 also tv campaigns massively work. We know this. We have cool Cancer campaigns. I am not asking for a fundraiser. More a general publci health campaign that just might put off another psycho kid from getting in too deep.

@halloweenie13

I've been thinking of a career change recently and especially with the horrific cases that have been happening, have been looking at doing the think ahead social worker training scheme. It seems the entire industry needs more people who genuinely care and will speak up and be a voice for those that don't have one.

Good luck to you if you do. You’ll meet many other social workers who care and will do their best for the children they work with, under an almost impossible burden of work and no resources left to support them. I’ve never met an uncaring social worker. Burnt out ones, yes, but not uncaring.

Funding, resourcing, valuing the work - all a major problem in todays society and I doubt anything will change even after these recent tragedies.

It’s not possible to get to a place where no children will be killed by those closest to them, it will sadly always happen sometimes, and cannot always be predicted. But it’s possible to adequately fund services to respond to referrals, to spend time with families, to do more thorough assessments, and to put support in place, which would reduce risk and hopefully mean fewer children are seriously harmed or die. I don’t think the government will do that, though.

They have to get consent from the parents before they can speak to another professional about a child. So if a teacher is worried about a child they can't just phone up the health visitor or school nurse without first getting the parents permission.

This isn't true. Anyone can report child abuse, and we all should but teachers especially are in a position to because they see children all day long. A social worker might only see a child for an hour once a month.

I think schools with the right infrastructure could play a much bigger role in safeguarding. I mean a massive overhaul of it all. Also a child from as early an age as possible to be taught in school their rights

Since the first lockdown I've been very opposed to schools closing, even though I very much agree with other covid measures. I was shouted down a few times and told it shouldn't be a teachers responsibility to safeguard. But it absolutely is and is partly the reason education became compulsory in the late 1800s. Maybe better training or even a specific job of in school social worker.

For younger children it's much more difficult to safeguard and I believe the way families, aunts, grandmothers, now often live miles away from each other makes it worse. Years ago communities were more together, in streets and worl, and abuse more noticed by other women and including neighbours.

We are ALL failing these children, all of us and maybe thats part of the reason it upsets us so much when we read these cases. We need more reporting and better ways to report. A pp mentioned grandparents trying to report about their grandchildren but the awful dilemma is that the parents might completely cut off the grandparents if they find out who has reported them and social services not take any action anyway. So the situation is made worse

In my own bitter experience the kids themselves aren't believed, or if they are nobody cares, or if they do there's nothing they can do about it. Not just SS, CAHMS too, and schools. I suspect lack of funding is the real root cause, with a government who aren't interested in the people without voices.

Sorry that sounds pessimistic but I find it hard not to be about these issues.

"More Funding"

Where to start with this.

How anyone is a "social worker" (and that phrase even) is beyond me.
This is where "social work" (aka) people working with deeply conflicted social situations are expected to do magic with tiny resources, exacerbated constraints and drowncorporate managerialism - I think it's fucking miracle that there are any silent success stories.

Star is only tip of an iceberg

Edit : drowning in

Yes more funding is needed but it's also about political trends and attitides.

The grooming gang scandal was ignored and covered up because the victims and those who tried to do something, were silenced with accusations of racism and this was believed

In the recent case, the murderers of the little girl accused the grandparents of homophobia and this was also believed.

Decades ago, the Islington foster care scandal, another horrific case, when it was thought single men leading promiscuous lifestyles, and other red flags, were thought to be suitable foster carers

Yes more funding, but not sure just throwing money at it is the answer.

Think I am the only voice here but that it usual. We need to stop blaming ' social workers ' and "the government'. So nebulous. Lets look at ourselves

This has been playing on mind all evening.
Whole system needs rethinking as it plainly doesn’t work well. Too many managers, too much time spent on paperwork.
How to improve it —- learn from the people who have been in the system, the children who have been helped ( who are now older, and in a position to give their opinions) what worked ? What failed?
Which countries have the best record of best outcomes for children in care? Which countries have campaigns to prevent abuse that work?
I don’t think Britain is very good at looking to other countries for examples.
Sorry if this is garbled, can’t sleep for thinking of those poor children who were treated so badly by adults who were supposed to protect them.

@JHMJHM Just telling people not to have kids doesn't help the ones that are already born though does it? What about them?

In this latest case there were 5 concerns raised to SS. Surely that should raise a massive red flag. The babysitter could see there was a problem but SS could not see it. They seem to blindly believe what parents tell them even when bruising and fractures would indicate otherwise. Children who are too young to talk much or to complain are even more at risk but all we will hear is 'A lesson will be learned'. SS should be made accountable for their mistakes.

I am a foster carer and have been for over 10 years. The child we care for is 15 and sees his SW once every 10 weeks. If there is an issue he can do a Teams talk with her in-between. She has 21 children in her caseload and only works part-time. Goodness knows how many children a full time SW would be dealing with. Some of the children on care have so many problems due to poor past experience. She has told me before there are sadly not enough foster care placements to place every child that needs care. The child we care for has complex special needs and needs constant attention. He has lived with us for 10 years. We have said due to his complex needs we can't care for another child, yet we are frequently text about taking on another child because they know we have another spare bedroom.

Leaving an abusive relationship in the 90s was very difficult. I was an emotional mess but fortunately I had a good support network and the surestart centres were a huge lifeline.
You cannot underestimate the support that vulnerable families like mine received from them.
The classes that I and other were able to access helped to break the cycle of abuse.
I don't want to go into other people's experiences too much but women in classes I attended came from abusive relationships that they began while escaping abusive homes.
I can't imagine the continued suffering and vulnerability for those without that level of support,care and networking.

Anyone who thinks that abuse can be noted, acted upon and children protected might want to do an internet search for some serious case reviews.
It's becoming more widely recognised that the wool is pulled over eyes in violent or abusive relationships and yet time and time again Parents are perceived as cooperating despite the frustrated voices around the children.

I have struggled as a parent with how to word this thought but despite how much I adore and want the best for my children, the thought of anyone but me having the ultimate say about their care is terrifying.

I did fail them when they were babies because I was in such a state that I couldn't recognise the harm and risk.

The people around me could and did. To my knowledge no report was ever made to social services. If it had been I know for a fact that my ex husband would have been able to appear caring, cooperative and concerned for the children and that I wouldn't have been strong enough at that time to contradict.

Fortunately I removed my children from the situation but then began the battle to protect them as it was in the best interest of the children to see their father.

So much of the system places great importance on the rights of the parents.
Parents that view children as property.
Parents that use children for revenge.
Parents that punish children as part of continued domestic violence during relationships and even when those relationships have ended.

It's far too simplistic to say bring back local surestart centres but from my experience and that of many others, that kind of help in the community was essential. Now it's been removed and has never been replaced. I do think they were seen as an extravagant spend due to the communities they served with total disregard for the long term, positive effect they brought to those communities.

Schools don't often see these children until they are 5. Where do families go with their babies now?

Generally abusive or neglectful parents should have been targetted when they themselves were children.

My experience with social care has been fairly poor, as children we grew up in a very physical and emotionally abusive home, we were told to our faces by social workers that we were liars. Eventually one sibling was taken seriously and eventually it resulted in her living with our dad fulltime, we were then left behind with our mum and SS never bothered at all after that, despite the fact that further concerns were raised by our school.

We’re now all adults, my sister is a drug user who has had all of her children removed, although it took some of her children suffering years of violence before they were considered worthy of protection. My brother is emotionally detached from everyone and essentially trapped in freeze mode. I have poor (but very well managed) mental health and an on off ED. I’m the mosf normal one, now that is scary. The type of adults we turned in to isn’t at all surprising, trauma causes permanent changes to a childs brain. If my siblings had started to receive appropriate support from when SS first became involved she probably wouldn’t be an abusive drug user, he wouldn’t be a living robot and I would likely have better mental health. It isn’t unusual, there are thousands of adults who were abused and neglected by both their parents and by social care, there are thousands of children in that situation right now.

We essentially have a system that says “aww poor kid lets put them in care, or give them to a tired over worked family member, or leave them with parents and have a pointless meeting every month” rather than actually seeing that child as a human being and providing the support the individual needs. They need therapy, theraplay, sensory therapy, a secure and stable home that doesn’t change every few months, carers who are actually qualified to meet their needs and are very much held accountable for their actions. Lots of fosters carers are brilliant, some are crap, my sons would fail to seek medical help for ear infections because it was too much effort, she’d only replace his hearing aid batteries once a week (they last around three days), all done with the approval of social services.

Society sees and feels sorry for those children, some people even claim they would have taken that child in, when most likely they’d be complaining that their mum was claiming benefits and their poor little pfb shouldn’t have to sit next to them at school. Those children then turn 18, at this point society sees them as dangerous, evil, scum, a waste of space, that same society then pretends to be shocked when those traumatised children are unable to function as productive members of society when they become adults.

I know people who had babies during lockdown who haven’t even seen a health visitor face to face. Babies weren’t even weighed regularly. I had a friend who struggled with breastfeeding with no support because the services had been suspended. It makes you wonder how many other abuse cases are completely unknown to anyone. At the nursery we have sometimes been the first professionals to see children and to support their families as other workers have been doing checks on zoom etc which won’t give a true picture of how a family is coping.

@caringcarer

In this latest case there were 5 concerns raised to SS. Surely that should raise a massive red flag. The babysitter could see there was a problem but SS could not see it. They seem to blindly believe what parents tell them even when bruising and fractures would indicate otherwise. Children who are too young to talk much or to complain are even more at risk but all we will hear is 'A lesson will be learned'. SS should be made accountable for their mistakes.

Fractures weren’t picked up. Bruising was put down to accidental injury by a paediatrician. That’s not “blindly believing” - a medical examination was requested. Why should the social worker be accountable and not the paediatrician?

'I hope I'm right when I say that I think the bar has been raised in my lifetime (and it needed to be). A lot of neglect and low level abuse was regarded as regrettable but not requiring action from Social Services back in the 60s and 70s. '

Yes, I think you are right. Indeed, if a child came to school unkempt, or if a child was quiet and withdrawn, it was likely that teachers would place the blame on the child, with a tirade of, 'You should make sure you wash, change your clothes, brush your hair before school' or 'If you don't make friends, you will grow up to be a very lonely old woman'.

I have posted about the cases of Star and Arthur on another thread, but I will say that I hope agencies do learn from these tragic cases. Yes, low level abuse and neglect does need to be addressed, and problems with MH and poverty in which these actions prevail should also be considered.

Yet, the two cases most prominent in the public eye involved extremely sinister issues with relationships, extremely dysfunctional partnerships, and abusers who were quite adept at fobbing off the authorities (in my opinion).