How do I pay our lovely cleaner?

[Alwaysfullofquestions]

We’re hiring a woman to clean once a week because work is getting busier and busier and i also have a chronic illness which causes fatigue so I struggle to keep on top of it.

My only question is how do I pay her? She wants to be paid in cash but I want to make sure I’m doing it correctly, should I be paying by BACs? Or does it not matter? Anyone I’ve hired before for things like gardening or rubbish removal has been online banking.

Just want to make sure I’m doing it right and sorry if this seems like a stupid question!

Well clearly there aren't any, @Itsalmostanaccessory.

There is probably legislation which says if you collude with a builder/electrician/mechanic to do a job for cash in older to save the VAT then you are committing a crime. Because you know you're getting a cheaper price because the tradesperson is not putting it through the accounts.

Bur that's not what's happening here.

I always say it on these threads when people spout off a load of shite about self-employed people but why do you think bank transfer is a guarantee tax will be paid? I run a small business selling a service - I am not buying stock or paying invoices to suppliers so all payments come into my personal savings account, not a business account. When I do my tax return it's up to me to declare all that. Many of the payments to me are from other private individuals not businesses so the payments into my account are from "Jane Jones" or "Paula Parker" not "Jones Consulting Ltd". Could be payments from my sister, cousin, friend.

I always declare everything and keep records of payments but it would be so easy not to declare everything and HMRC would never know. I have been self-employed for about 15 years and nobody has ever asked for proof of anything. I'm small fry and they're not bothered.

Just pay her cash. I wish ours would do transfer as it’s a pain in the arse paying cash, but she prefers cash so we pay her in cash.

@logsonlogsoff

Unless she’s claiming benefits too - in which case report her.

People like you are such losers. This doesn't even make any sense

@logsonlogsoff

"‘ I have never seen a thread about a gardener, window cleaner or private tutor being questioned over a cash payment.’

Actually I make the assumption that anyone wanting cash in hand may be doing some creative accounting. ESP since the last guy to ask for cash offered to knock 20% off the over all bill for cash rather than BACs ( mechanic)
I’m not sure our window cleaner pays his tax, but he’s self employed so it’s up to him to keep it legit."

The cleaner is self employer also, it it up to him or her to keep it legit in exactly the same way - your logic is totally fucked and evidently based on prejudice.

@amberflames

You are spouting shit btw

[quote Itsalmostanaccessory]@Amberflames

Can you explain how?
Are cash payments illegal now?
I used cash a lot. I used cash at all the stalls in the xmas market. I paid my window cleaner in cash. Did I enabled tax dodging? What are the sentencing guidelines for paying in cash? I've no proof whatsoever or any knowledge at all of their taxes. Can you please link the sentencing guidelines for the punishment I will receive if any stall holders or my window cleaners dont eat tax on my specific payments to them?[/quote]
Yes, please explain.

I use my local market most weeks and pay all the stall holders in cash. Who should I report myself too? In fact I've seen the stall holders paying the man who collects the rents in cash (admittedly pre covid so might have changed now) should I also report my local council for being tax dodgers too

Please reply asap as I'm going to a Christmas market event next weekend and was planning in paying cash there too

Sick of reading posts of how people "have no time" to organise cash payments. Get over yourself. No-one is that busy. Pay your cleaner in cash or find another cleaner.

‘
The cleaner is self employer also, it it up to him or her to keep it legit in exactly the same way - your logic is totally fucked and evidently based on prejudice.’

I didn’t say it wasn’t - I said pay the woman her cash. So I don’t know what the F you’re on about.
I’m aware cleaners are self ‘employer’.
I’ve repeatedly said I don’t see the issue. I’be actually been a cleaner, so am well aware that cleaners are just ordinary people doing a job, thanks.

@MLMshouldbeillegal

I know that's now what is happening here. But @Amberflames is saying it is. Someone else said it is not the OP's responsibility to go and check this woman's tax records. Because it isnt and she is not committing a crime by paying in cash. Amberflames says she is. So I'm asking for proof that paying in cash, with no proof or reason to suspect illegal activity, is actually a crime.

I;'m agree with you @Itsalmostanaccessory that Amber Whatsit is talking out of her arse.

But also pointing out that bank transfer isn't this amazingly compliant payment method which everyone thinks it is.

‘ Sick of reading posts of how people "have no time" to organise cash payments. Get over yourself.’

While I agree that her cleaner should be paid in cash as she wants, it is a flipping pain in the arse remembering to get cash each week because it is quite literally the only thing we regularly need cash for anymore. Everything else is either transfer, PayPal or Contactless now. None of us ever
have cash in this house, even the kids pocket money goes on a card.

I doubt it's tax dodging. Payment in cash immediately after services rendered makes her life much easier than having to chase for payment. Just pay her in cash!

Ffs, tax dodging? I clean. I mostly get paid in cash because it’s more convenient for my clients. I won’t earn enough to pay tax but I’m registered with Hmrc and insured. Just give her the bloomin cash and be done.

@Amberflames
Tou are knowingly enabling tax evasion.
All if you go to the market and they say cash only, do you say sorry I can't do that, I won't enable tax evasion? And do you always pay the extra to cover the charges of using card?

@logsonlogsoff

‘ Sick of reading posts of how people "have no time" to organise cash payments. Get over yourself.’

While I agree that her cleaner should be paid in cash as she wants, it is a flipping pain in the arse remembering to get cash each week because it is quite literally the only thing we regularly need cash for anymore. Everything else is either transfer, PayPal or Contactless now. None of us ever
have cash in this house, even the kids pocket money goes on a card.

Yeah it's really hard work! Why not get a months out in one go, ease that massive burden.

This thread highlights the double standards on MN that I've seen a few times.

The general consensus on here is that benefit fraud doesn't exist and if it does, it's fully justified in some kind of Robin Hood mentality and people would only do so out of desperation to feed their 23 kids rather than being greedy, workshy cunts.

And yet conversely there is this general consensus that anyone depriving the Exchequor of a measly few quid from a €30 job, should be prosecuted for tax dodging.

There was a thread a while back where a poster had her arse handed to her because she proposed paying her sister or someone £200 per month to watch her kids for a few hours. That was apparently illegal and she should pay a proper nanny and full tax and NI and to do anything less made her personally responsible for the NHS being short funded.

Absolutely barking.

Think about it. You clean someone else's shit for 3 hours, say £30. That £30 does not include petrol to get to the house or the time spent in traffic to and from which is unpaid. If you then had to give up say £7 of that to the taxman, it wouldn't be viable. No-one would do it, it's just not worth it. Most domestic cleaners IME don't do it fulltime, it's just pin money.

And yet the same posters all happily spending at Amazon, the biggest fucking tax dodgers ever.

[quote SleepingStandingUp]@Amberflames
Tou are knowingly enabling tax evasion.
All if you go to the market and they say cash only, do you say sorry I can't do that, I won't enable tax evasion? And do you always pay the extra to cover the charges of using card?[/quote]
I pay my cleaner by bank transfer which is free for both of us (plus the taxes to an agency). And my window cleaner has put his prices up which I would assume covers his transaction costs.

When I was a cleaner I made sure I got paid in cash, because fuckers don't pay on time otherwise. Oh I forgot, oh can you wait until I get paid, oh this oh that.
No, pay me before I leave.

@THisbackwithavengeance

This thread highlights the double standards on MN that I've seen a few times.

The general consensus on here is that benefit fraud doesn't exist and if it does, it's fully justified in some kind of Robin Hood mentality and people would only do so out of desperation to feed their 23 kids rather than being greedy, workshy cunts.

And yet conversely there is this general consensus that anyone depriving the Exchequor of a measly few quid from a €30 job, should be prosecuted for tax dodging.

There was a thread a while back where a poster had her arse handed to her because she proposed paying her sister or someone £200 per month to watch her kids for a few hours. That was apparently illegal and she should pay a proper nanny and full tax and NI and to do anything less made her personally responsible for the NHS being short funded.

Absolutely barking.

Think about it. You clean someone else's shit for 3 hours, say £30. That £30 does not include petrol to get to the house or the time spent in traffic to and from which is unpaid. If you then had to give up say £7 of that to the taxman, it wouldn't be viable. No-one would do it, it's just not worth it. Most domestic cleaners IME don't do it fulltime, it's just pin money.

And yet the same posters all happily spending at Amazon, the biggest fucking tax dodgers ever.

Those who illegally undercut legitimate workers by not paying tax are driving down wages, if a job is something people want doing then it will settle in at a sustainable level, that is how supply and demand work. Around here you probably won't find a cleaner for less than £15 ph and many are £20+. I don't have a cleaner, but pay for one for my mum as it helps her out, the cleaner charges £20 per hour and she does two cleans per day, either two or three hours each five days a week and usually one on a Saturday morning. She works very hard, she is great, she is fully above board with taxes, just as everyone should be.

Amazon don't "dodge" tax, they do not pay much corporation tax, because they do not make much profit, businesses pay corporation tax on profit not turnover.

Tax evasion is wrong regardless of who does it, no one should be allowed to get away with it.

@Amberflames

You must have missed my post. So I'll ask again.

You've said the OP would actually be committing a crime if she paid in cash. Can you show me the law and sentencing guidelines please?

She isnt involved in any scheme here. She is just paying for a service in cash, which is totally legal. You've said it isnt and she would be responsible for aiding tax evasion. So... link?

[quote Itsalmostanaccessory]@Amberflames

You must have missed my post. So I'll ask again.

You've said the OP would actually be committing a crime if she paid in cash. Can you show me the law and sentencing guidelines please?

She isnt involved in any scheme here. She is just paying for a service in cash, which is totally legal. You've said it isnt and she would be responsible for aiding tax evasion. So... link?[/quote]
Gosh, I pay my cleaner cash and have done for around five years, do you think I will get a custodial sentence?

@THisbackwithavengeance

This thread highlights the double standards on MN that I've seen a few times.

The general consensus on here is that benefit fraud doesn't exist and if it does, it's fully justified in some kind of Robin Hood mentality and people would only do so out of desperation to feed their 23 kids rather than being greedy, workshy cunts.

And yet conversely there is this general consensus that anyone depriving the Exchequor of a measly few quid from a €30 job, should be prosecuted for tax dodging.

There was a thread a while back where a poster had her arse handed to her because she proposed paying her sister or someone £200 per month to watch her kids for a few hours. That was apparently illegal and she should pay a proper nanny and full tax and NI and to do anything less made her personally responsible for the NHS being short funded.

Absolutely barking.

Think about it. You clean someone else's shit for 3 hours, say £30. That £30 does not include petrol to get to the house or the time spent in traffic to and from which is unpaid. If you then had to give up say £7 of that to the taxman, it wouldn't be viable. No-one would do it, it's just not worth it. Most domestic cleaners IME don't do it fulltime, it's just pin money.

And yet the same posters all happily spending at Amazon, the biggest fucking tax dodgers ever.

You seem very angry but your post doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

Your hypothetical cleaner earning £30 per job then deducting petrol would only be paying £7 tax if she was a higher rate tax payer which doesn't make sense unless she has another income, does she clean for not much more than minimum wage for love?

Whatever you think of amazon they don't dodge tax or do you think that all the countries they operate in and take advantage of tax laws from haven't noticed that one of the world's biggest companies is breaking their laws?

Maybe do them a favour and let them know you've spotted what armies of hugely paid lawyers can't.

as many pp have said being paid cash does not mean they are tax avoiders - for many it means that they are guaranteed they have been paid & they can use the money straight away. It also could be she wants to keep her money quiet from her husband/partner (which as a mn we should understand) or she feels more in control of her money if tis in cash (aka I can only spend the cash I have & not get in debt or her partner -for instance - is overdrawn at bank)

We pay our cleaner by bank transfer- but I know she only accepts this way with clients she trusts- new clients are cash until she she feels she can trust etc this is due to on more than one occasion people not paying her! Whether she is tax dodging who knows (I can’t see her earning over the threshold anyway) she has insurance which makes me feel that she all above board.

Amazon don't "dodge" tax, they do not pay much corporation tax, because they do not make much profit, businesses pay corporation tax on profit not turnover.

That's funny. Jeff Bezos is one of, if not THE richest man in the world. Of course Amazon makes lots of profit.

Having said that, I'd agree it's not tax dodging so much as legitimate tax loopholes that are irritatingly available to massive corporates like Amazon and that the tax authorities should absolutely be closing those loopholes.

@Amberflames jog on - I am not responsible for knowingly helping someone to evade tax because I may cash to my cleaner. As a pp pointed out, that would mean every time I pay cash at a market or for any other service there's a problem.

A builder who knocks of 20% for VAT IS my problem because in that case, I am basically attempting to get out of paying the VAT and HE is enabling me in my tax dodging.