To consider retraining as a primary teacher?

[CrumpledCrumpet]

I’m early 40s, have two primary age DC, decent job/career with 50k salary but fed up of my current role. I love being around my DCs primary school and I see the teachers and I think “I want to do what you do”.

I always volunteer to help in the classroom when the opportunity comes up, I love being around the children. I love the school environment. When I was younger I volunteered in schools too - only talking an hour or so here and there though.

I like working under pressure/stress and I work better in situations with lots of feedback / stimulus. I like ‘performing’, delivering presentations etc in my current role. I’m generally patient and calm but enthusiastic.

But…

Everyone seems to be quitting the profession, so I clearly must have a rose-tinted view.

Although I like performing/presenting etc I am a classic introvert and think I might find being ‘always on’ exhausting.

I will obviously get paid less than I do now.

I can’t even get my own kids to listen to me half the time

Is it insane to even consider?

Training and the first few years would be very hard with your family circumstances. I am the same age as you with kids 9 and 12. I have nearly 20 years experience so have tricks up my sleeve and short-cuts to make life a bit easier but I am still crumbling under the strain of juggling my work and family life. In your first years of teaching everything takes longer to prepare. I don't know that I would start a teaching career at your stage of life.

Doesn't help that my partner is a teacher as well. Very nice in the holidays but term-times are a struggle.

Most teachers I have spoken too have recommended being a TA or HLTA over teaching, would most agree with that or not

Depends what level of money you need really. A TA wage is not much more than minimum wage.

My 23 year old daughter is a Primary School Teacher. She lived with us until a few months ago, so I have seen the amount of work involved. A typical week day for her was :

Up at 6am, get ready, make packed lunch etc
Get in to school by 7.30am
Teaching 9am-3pm
Planning 3pm-630pm
Arrive home 640pm
Dinner (cooked by me) 7pm
7pm-midnight more lesson preparation
Midnight - bed

Rinse and repeat. She was exhausted to the point of almost being ill. She had 5 special needs children in her class of 31 pupils. She had no teaching assistant or any help whatsoever. I did all of her washing/cooking/cleaning. She wants children of her own and has no idea how she could manage both without going part time.

She has actually just moved to the USA for 2-3 years, and she says it's like night and day at her new school. They allow time in the working day for prep. She as teaching assistants to help her. Class size is 18 pupils. She's home by 4.15pm with no school work to do - she actually has a life now!

So yeah, I think you'd be crazy to do this!

@Winter2020

This stood out for me "I always volunteer to help in the classroom when the opportunity comes up"

Your kids must love you being so involved in their school life and if you are able to do this then you probably attend all the sports days, the school plays, the tea and cake for Mother's day.....

If you are a full time teacher you will be unlikely to be able to attend any event for your own children. As a parent I think you would be mad to give up a 50K job to do it. Teaching where "Every Child Matters" except your own!

Yes the lack of flexibility would definitely be a bit of a challenge vs my current job where I can largely do as I please.

Some of the volunteering I do is with my children’s classes, some isn’t but I do it because I love it. I’ve done various bits before DC like volunteer reading programmes in my lunch break. Very aware this is only dipping my toe in the water of the fun, rewarding bit of teaching.

I really need to understand what is so bad about it!

• the micro managing
• the lack of trust in the skills and experience of teachers
• the lack of autonomy
• the imbalance of actual teaching (or even preparing of lessons) against the ludicrous amounts of paperwork (yes, I presume there is pointless paperwork in every jobs, but it is about balance)
• the number of children that class teachers have in each class with significant additional needs, with either no, or with limited additional support..... meaning their needs are not being met and nor are the needs of the children with not quite such significant needs and nor are the needs of the children without additional needs

the constant pointless "ideas" that seem to be decided upon by people who have never taught, that are then imposed upon every teacher regardless of pedagogy and regardless of circumstances of the class

• OFSTED. Not fit for purpose. Come into schools with a preordained instruction to decide the rating on whatever the "in" thing is that year, and totally disregard circumstance (eg COVID) and rarely look at the bigger picture.

There's more.

At least you are being realistic in your thinking, but, as others have suggested, it is worth trying to get to volunteer (over a longer period, on your days off perhaps) in a different school from the one your dc go to.
All schools are different, and management makes a huge different to the workload.

Can I just add as well - if you train as a Teacher, you have absolutely no guarantee of actually getting a job!

In the Council area where we are, some teachers have permanent contracts with the Council, but the Teachers that are newer to the profession, do not. They find out at the end of each year whether they will be offered a job next year.

In my DD case, she got a great year end review, but they did not offer her a job for the next academic year. This happened to a lot of other young teachers (she remained friends with her Uni colleagues). So many were all left without a job, even though they had got their Degree, done their probationary year successfully and received good reports.

No job!! No one ever tells you that!!

And it's almost impossible to move to a new Council area, because most adverts are "internal applicants only", as in you must already be teaching in that Council.

Had my DD not moved to the USA, she would have been suddenly on the dole, even though she did everything right and got glowing feedback. I presumed that Teachers were employed by the Council, permanently - they are not!

In fact the more I type, the angrier I am getting, as I remember how shoddily she was treated by her school. It was such a stressful time, and I'm so relieved that she is away from it now.

If you are a full time teacher you will be unlikely to be able to attend any event for your own children. As a parent I think you would be mad to give up a 50K job to do it. Teaching where "Every Child Matters" except your own! EXACTLY!!

@Winter2020

This stood out for me "I always volunteer to help in the classroom when the opportunity comes up"

Your kids must love you being so involved in their school life and if you are able to do this then you probably attend all the sports days, the school plays, the tea and cake for Mother's day.....

If you are a full time teacher you will be unlikely to be able to attend any event for your own children. As a parent I think you would be mad to give up a 50K job to do it. Teaching where "Every Child Matters" except your own!

If you are a full time teacher you will be unlikely to be able to attend any event for your own children

But OP would be around in school holidays, which is more than most people can manage

I have been a teacher for about ten years, now a ta. I have taught all years primary and secondary at various points, as well as sen, behaviour placements, and international. Like a pp I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, unless you are a true extrovert who genuinely gets energised by interacting with others. Saying that, my partner is an extrovert and he also is trying to leave teaching. Like pp it made me ill as felt I could never switch off and was always ill in the holidays, I could never imagine how ppl with children do it. I think if you're the sort of person who never gets anxious you might be OK and I think its probably worth trying so you don't regret not doing it, if you can go back to your old job as an option. If you can afford it I would recommend working as a TA for a while first and see how you feel, you could offer to help with marking or paperwork etc to get a feel for it. If you wanted to train in secondary there are bursaries for certain subjects (depending on your previous qualifications). Sorry this is quite negative, wanted to be honest and for my personality type it has been a decision that I massively regret.

Also check the post today about a teacher not being allowed time off to attend a funeral. I, myself, only had one day off when my father died. I love teaching in class, berms teacher for 23 years, but you have to be prepared that family takes second best. I have two children. Both DH and I are teachers. They’re used to being the first at breakfast club and the last to be collected. I rarely see them in events unless they’re after school. The past two years we have missed parents ‘evenings’ as they’re now scheduled for 3.30-5.30 and we can’t make it to their school for then. On the flip side I make damn sure I enjoy my (none paid) holiday time with my family.

When I mentioned the micromanagement, I mean, you are often told the exact words that have to come out of your mouth. Now, it's been a long time since I worked in the corporate world and things may have changed, but I certainly didn't have that kind of micromanagement, even as a young twenty-something.

Having said that OP, if teaching if what you really want to do, then I think it's worth a shot. Some people love it and you may be one of them.

*been a

• 22 years

(Get used to your brain not working past 3.30 😆)

When I mentioned the micromanagement, I mean, you are often told the exact words that have to come out of your mouth. Now, it's been a long time since I worked in the corporate world and things may have changed, but I certainly didn't have that kind of micromanagement, even as a young twenty-something.

Funnily enough I work in a sector where this isn’t actually that uncommon - or at least there are orthodoxies with specific language attached that seem to change every 5 minutes.

I now work in a school as finance director. Great place to work, without having to be a teacher. I still get called Sir in the corridors too.

Use the flexibility of your well paid job to continue to volunteer in schools. You’d be mad to leave that job for teaching.

I know a lot of people retrain as teachers later in life but I’m starting to wonder if it’s a good idea. Apart from the long hours, you have to have a growth mindset in teaching. You need to be always looking for new ideas and be willing to develop professionally. I’ve seen a couple of older new teachers really struggle because they won’t listen to advice, especially from younger, more experienced colleagues.

7.30am to 5pm day as basic.
Sometimes 7.30am to 9pm if event of parents evening.

8am to 3.30pm performance time.
3.30pm to 5pm+ prep for the 7 hour day the next day.
And then some.

And I havent inc marking. Marking isnt such an issue now in secondary. We have ways around it. Prep still v onerous though:
25 ppt a week.
In offices doesnt one ppt take 2 weeks to make for a big presentation?
I make 25, 20 page ppts a week. There are some shortcuts but not as many as you think. You can't just do one set and use them for life. It doesnt work like that. I ve been teaching 24 years and still prep every day / week / term / year.

(In Ireland) the school and pupils will have a HUGE impact on your experience. If you are in a "good area", great. If you are working in certain deprived areas then it can be a nightmare, and these are often the opportunities available in early years.

One huge negative not mentioned enough can be dealing with problematic children/parents. 99% are OK, but some really really bad experiences too. This can have a huge impact on quality of life, your ability to teach, and make it hard to switch off after hours.

I personally never had a problem with workload. The syllabus is defined, it evolves only very slowly, most of the prep work is carried over and re-used.

I do sometimes think I'd have preferred to teach at secondary level here (I have a desired specialization), but I feel like I'd be starting over, and too comfy where I am.

Try it! Life is too short to stay stuck in things you don't like. If you don't like it, I guess there will be more decisions to be made and you'll be all the wiser. If you love it, you've done yourself (and your family) a huge favour as well lots of kids in the future (desperate for good, well qualified teachers who want to do the job). I work in Early Years and I'm (fast) approaching 50. I started pretty much by accident when I was 45 and I love it.

Honestly OP I wouldn’t do it.

I do it and quite like it but I'm in a lovely primary in a nice area. Just be aware pay in primary can be less than 'advertised'. It can be hard to get above M6. I was called a liar on MN by a non-teacher for saying there often isn't money for extra responsibilities but certainly in my area it's true. We have a part time head and I'm the most senior teacher so I'm in charge the days he is not there. For this I get zero extra pay compared to a bog standard classroom teacher.

@crystal1717 two weeks to make a presentation in an office job! Nope. It can take 2 weeks to get senior approval for an important presentation including the back and forth with changes. But you wont spend 2 weeks of work actually preparing it. Not in my job anyway.

@FoxIvy

I do it and quite like it but I'm in a lovely primary in a nice area. Just be aware pay in primary can be less than 'advertised'. It can be hard to get above M6. I was called a liar on MN by a non-teacher for saying there often isn't money for extra responsibilities but certainly in my area it's true. We have a part time head and I'm the most senior teacher so I'm in charge the days he is not there. For this I get zero extra pay compared to a bog standard classroom teacher.

I have been accused of lying about pay as well!

Money is very tight in schools so it can be difficult to go up through the pay scales. You may look at the money and think that M6 or UPS3 sound great, but very few teachers actually make threshold as there isn’t the cash; we have teachers ‘stuck’ on M4.

When the government give pay rises, there is no additional money to fund them. The last one we had, none of us in my school actually saw any money-there simply wasn’t any available. We were actually having staff redundancies instead!

We have no extra money for any additional responsibilities either. The deputy head has most of them tbh, but she is also a virtually full time class teacher so time is limited. The senco is part time with no SEN allowance and there are no TLRs. All our teachers have one, or not more subject areas-no additional money and with the subject ‘Deep Dives’ that Ofsted are focusing on, it’s a big unpaid role.