Not toilet trained 5 year old

[Senmumm2021]

Very long standing member just NC-ed.

AIBU to think a child who isn't toilet trained at 5 there is more to it than just parents who haven't tried hard enough? And that a NT child would not still be in nappies even if parents were lazy?

Is the root of the problem sensory (when you say he has a fear of the toilet.) does he have other sensory issues? Over/ undersensitive to stimuli, sensory seeking etc …has he seen an OT, they are the first port of call if this is the crux of it.

Do you think he knows when he needs to go? Does he indicate that he needs to go/ is going/ behave differently? How are his communication/ speech skills, can you open any dialogue with him about it?

You are very much not alone… we had a continence nurse out to see DS last week (he’s 6). Statistics are that by far the majority of children can and do toilet train but many are just on a different timeline (slower) but most will get there.

I think the most important thing is working out what the most obvious issue is (sensory, lack of communication, lack of social awareness.) it may be a combination of various things but try and isolate what you feel is the main one if you can to tackle first with outside help. We googled and accessed the continence services in our local hospital under the 0 to 19 service who came out to us and school.

Good luck

I really feel for you. We are in a similar position with our nearly 6 year old. She’s never 100% toilet trained despite us trying everything over the last 3.5 years.

I get annoyed when I remember reading new paper stories about lazy mums not bothering to toilet train their children before school. I can’t imagine this really happens. We also have a 2 year old and we’ve not pressured her at all but she happily takes herself to the loo and doesn’t like to be wet or dirty whereas my older one doesn’t care as much.

It took forever for us to find help as GP didn’t take it seriously and we couldn’t make contact with any advice or support in the first lockdown. Then she was suddenly at school and the problem continued.

Eric and the continence team have put it down to constipation but I think there’s a psychological/ neurological cause too. To our surprise she’s now been referred for autism assessment and has various sensory issues.

There are some good suggestions on the autism.org website as well as Eric and bladder and bowel U.K. as well as the movicol mummies Facebook group and child continence group.
www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/behaviour/toileting/parents

A friend has this - her little boy had blocked bowels so regularly wet himself. Needed to see a specialist but much better now. Something to do with if the bowel is blocked it's harder to know you need to go for a wee. Need medical attention but sorted quickly.

move the potty into the toilet so it doesn't play on their fears
make the bathroom a fun space - story telling, racing games to the potty, games such as ispy whilst on the potty, playing musical instruments, blowing bubbles in bottle with straw etc
positive reinforcement for any good behaviour but not excessively
importantly don't put a timeline on success - the more relaxed you are the more relaxed they are
there are also some really good books for little ones and parents alike
if you're struggling to get them to sit on the potty , turn on the tv and have them using it as a seat but not with the view to using the potty - takes the fear out
agree with PP you do need to start by establishing why they don't want to use the potty

Can he articulate what he’s scared of?

Both my boys have ASD - one trained just before 4th birthday in a week

The other not a chance.

Does he know when he’s going? Will he use a potty for. Stand up wee?

I wouldn’t expect a NT child to still be in nappies at 5. My health board (Scotland) do a 54 month review and (according to my health visitor) part of the reason was to make sure that at four and a half children were toilet trained and find out if there are issues.

She said it’s becoming increasingly common for children to start school in nappies.

If your children are not NT (guessing by your username) then any comparisons with other children their age aren’t fair.

He is petrified of the toilet Could this be a sensory problem?
These are just a few things that you may not have thought of, not for you to answer here.

Is the seat cold for him to sit on, or does he not like to take his clothes off and feel the air on his skin - compare with how he is at bathtime.

Is it the noise of the flush that terrifies him? If so, try ear-defenders.

Is it the bathroom environment per se, some can be really echoey, especially if fully tiled, or are the lights different in there?

Will he use a potty placed in the shower-tray so no flush?

Will he use a potty in a different room happily?

But exactly why are they scared of the toilet? It might be a rational reason in their mind. Keep asking why until you get a meaningful answer that you can work with.

I think you answered your own question with this: “He has communication delays, social skill delays. He is fairly anxious. Nothing majorly behind but not quite with his peers.”

When you’re comparing him to other children, it’s not necessarily a fair comparison. There is a little boy in my daughter’s class who has ADHD and is in nappies. His mother was perfectly capable of toilet training his older brother so it is nothing to do with her. He has additional needs and one of them happens to be toileting. You need proper help and support.

It certainly sounds like there are complex reasons behind this. If your child had major unexplained speech delay (for example) you wouldn't blame yourself for that, so don't for this.

However, I think you have to make an absolute pain of yourself to get help to get it sorted - partly because whatever's behind it might impact on other things, and partly because his peers will notice it soon and it won't help him with interaction which might put him further behind.

Senmumm2021 what made your rule out constipation as an issue?

You aren’t alone, there are lots of us out here with children who have this issue.

My youngest in Year 3 has ongoing soiling/wetting issues. Is under a consultant at the hospital and prescribed Movicol.

Like you have tried a number of things and even the nurse is stumped as we have done everything that they would recommend.

Have you tried removing food from diet in case it is a trigger? My child soils less since going dairy free. Weeing continues to be an issue.

Often if there is a weeing issue, the child has constipation. People often think that if a child soils then can’t be constipated.

Have you tried a social story with your child as main character? That might help him to understand why need to go and what the routine is?

Also do you access any groups online for support? Facebook for example has a couple of very good groups that offer support and advice.

Not sure if this will help at all but my son refused to use the toilet for a long time. (He would use a potty though, eventually.) In hindsight, I think he was fearful of the training seat slipping out from under him. We installed a new toilet seat with an integrated child’s section to great fanfare and heaped praise on him when he tried sitting on it and did a wee. I know your situation is more complex, but just sharing in case it helps. x

www.dunelm.com/product/family-toilet-seat-1000075939

Ah bless him and you. My son was not toilet trained at 5. He is severely autistic and non verbal but at nearly 9, he does generally use the toilet. If he can crack it despite the communication difficulties, hopefully your boy will too. FWIW, I would not assume a parent was simply 'lazy' because their child isn't toilet trained.

My son wasn’t toilet trained until almost 5 - and to be honest he wasn’t properly reliable for some time afterwards. He is autistic, but we knew that and there were clearly other issues as well.

You say he had other issues with regards to anxiety and communication so I’d want some support for him now.

I know this may sound weird, but have you considered something like a litter box? Or indeed an actual litter box.

How much of a sense does your DC have that he is doing something different from his peers? Does he feel a sense of being behind? Any sense of being a 'baby'?

My suggestion is play therapy to get to the bottom of your DC's terror of the toilet and to address this.

It sounds as if there might be a more global delay though. If you can get a private assessment, do that instead of waiting for a NHS opening.

Trying continuously for 3 years? That’s a lot of pressure on a child to be honest.

Back off for a few months and regroup. My child wasn’t toilet trained until age 6 but he’s autistic. Several people tried to pressure him/me. He wasn’t ready.

If your child has communication and social delays, and petrified of the toilet, then he needs to feel less stressed. Just take off the pressure. Try in 3 to 6 months with a completely different tact. Say just going to the a nicer toilet, one that’s not as scary, or even a big potty, and only try twice a day. That’s all, just sit there for 5 mins every day and reward with something. If it doesn’t show any signs of working in two weeks. Stop again.

So it's not so much that he isn't able to hold his urine/poo, it's because he doesn't like the toilet?

Is he bothered about being wet?

Will he wee in a potty?

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

Potty training is hard work and takes enormous effort from a young age with lots and lots of encouragement. It doesn't just happen.

This isn't true. My baby daughter potty trained herself before the age of two! We didn't even try, she just started copying her brother using the potty. My oldest son took a long time to be potty trained and we tried hard. It can very much depend on the child.