Family on 'Saving money at Christmas' nearly 4k a month and UC?

[clockingoffcloud]

Did I mishear? Had it on in the background, both parents working, their current income was not much under 4k a month and they are getting universal credit, and moaning only have £50 left after paying everything.... wtf?!

Yes IABU if I should not be shocked at how much they earn AND claim benefits

We earn 2.3k a month between us and we don’t have benefits. We struggle sometimes but we can be comfortable if we make sure we plan everything well. We have one dc. I didn’t realise people on our combined income could have benefits?

@RussianSpy101

2 full time wages coming to less than 4K isn’t good. If they need the top ups then they need them.

Need them?

Sounds like they’re just bloody greedy!

Equally, lots of people on low incomes think they are average.

@DeepaBeesKit agreed, which is why I look at stats.

Also theres a difference between someone on a median income not thinking that's "high" and someone who's "well off" (ons defines high income as 1.5 x median) thinking they are on a low income (ons defines low income as 2/3 median).

Also income is meaningless without reference to costs. If you live somewhere where rent is £1500 a month for a 2 bed flat, and childcare is £1300 a month for 2 children, it is mathematically not possible for you to survive/be well off on 29k a year. It wont even cover those two costs, let alone food, electricity, water and gas.

Except costs are dependent on income. If you are on a lower income you make different choices about spending.

@DeepaBeesKit

It's really NOT a high income in the south east. I live in a town outside london. Very few people with children have a household income under about 70k, and those who are between 70 & 100k are hard up.

Basically you need 2500-3000 to cover rent and childcare here. At least 4000 if you add basic food, council tax, utilities, a basic internet connection and public transport to work. So 48k a year just to survive, that won't pay for school uniforms, presents, holidays, occasional treats, haircuts, having savings for emergencies, kids or adults hobbies.

And that's after tax, so people need to be earning probably more like 60-70k. To survive.

Why are you renting on salaries of 70k + ? I’m in the SE - computer town to London so I understand prices. Why would you not buy somewhere when it’s half the monthly expenditure and you’re good for it?

If they are struggling that much, why on earth did they choose to have that many children? I understand 1 or 2, but 4?? Probably cause they knew UC will cover them, and now they are complaining it's not enough. If childcare and commuting are so costly, one can also be a SAHP or work around school hours.

I don't really understand how they're getting UC - as a single mum my take home pay is less than half of that and I'm not entitled to anything.

But I can definitely understand how they could be struggling on that salary in the SE. I have more disposable income now living in NI on a part time wage than I did when DH and I were both on full time salaries (and freelancing on the side) in London.

Were they getting UC or are still on Tax Credits as a legacy benefit? The threshold for 4 children is fairly high (if they were born before the 2 children rule you still claim for them)

I work with people that are seriously on a low income and this would be like winning the lottery to them

But if the rules allow them to claim some benefit, then people who know more about it than you, have deemed that they are entitled to some form of help. And if that is the case, then their circumstances are such that saving is difficult to them.

Some people living in poverty around the world would probably think your low income people are really well off. It’s all about perspective.

20 years ago, the amount I earn now was a number I thought would make me really, really well off. I’m reality it doesn’t, because my life has expanded to live on the money I earn. And I had a warped perception of what “rich” was. I live well and am not complaining but I’m not in the “spend spend spend” position I would have thought this salary would allow.

It’s not a race to the bottom.

If they are struggling that much, why on earth did they choose to have that many children? I understand 1 or 2, but 4??

They probably weren’t struggling when they had them, and I think it’s frowned upon to try and give them away when your circumstances change.

@BoredZelda unless you are a billionaire, nobody can just spend spend spend on anything they want. But there is a big difference in the choices you have.

Just watched it and income was £3,215 a month including UC, so quite a bit off £4k, I'm sure I heard right as I rewound it.

@lightisnotwhite - minimum 10% deposit required to buy right now.

I'd be very interested to know where the UC comes from.

I think YABU simply on the basis that you don’t know the full facts and are assuming the situation is somehow their fault and/or that they don’t deserve benefits - maybe that is true but maybe it’s nit, there is nowhere near enough information to say either way.

No one makes them live where they live and no one made them have 4 children. It’s the classic; people making choices, not being happy with the implications of said choices and then them not wanting to take responsibility. I have zero sympathy. They need to budget better and / or work additional hours. E.g. a friend of mine with 2 children is finding money tight so she often works on a Saturday. Christmas will be expensive with 4 children, my parents used to save all year and they only had 2 children

@DeepaBeesKit

It's really NOT a high income in the south east. I live in a town outside london. Very few people with children have a household income under about 70k, and those who are between 70 & 100k are hard up.

Basically you need 2500-3000 to cover rent and childcare here. At least 4000 if you add basic food, council tax, utilities, a basic internet connection and public transport to work. So 48k a year just to survive, that won't pay for school uniforms, presents, holidays, occasional treats, haircuts, having savings for emergencies, kids or adults hobbies.

And that's after tax, so people need to be earning probably more like 60-70k. To survive.

I think this is a good example of the impact of people's choices though. I also live in the south east, outside of London and many, many of my friends are earning less than this. No-one on such a high income would consider themselves hard up. It sounds like it is more expensive to live in your area than mine. I would like to live in a nicer place, but can't. If you can't afford it you need to go somewhere where the rent or house prices are cheaper. Childcare is also often more affordable in the less salubrious places.

They absoloutley must have additional requirements which mean they are entitled to it. Dh and my combined income is 52k pre tax, and we get child benefit only. We both work ft and have two dc.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee exactly, we want to live in area a; nicer area, easier to get to work from there etc. We could afford it theoretically but money would be tight and it may cause issues further on down the line. So we live in area b which is a fair bit cheaper

@Hankunamatata

Suppose depends if one persons wages are wiped out by childcare. My childcare used to be my entire wage plus some of dh

What's the actual point in working then? If childcare took all your wages plus some of DH's, why not just stop working and look after your children, and be financially better off for it? It seems bloody ridiculous to be away from your children just to pay for someone else to take care of your children.

“ What's the actual point in working then? If childcare took all your wages plus some of DH's, why not just stop working and look after your children, and be financially better off for it? It seems bloody ridiculous to be away from your children just to pay for someone else to take care of your children.”

That’s short sighted. Firstly there are more benefits with working like pension, and second it’s about establishing a career and future development. What you’re advocating is part of the problem that means womens careers stall when having children

@PrincessNutella my rent is £1450 zone 6 south London 3 bed 1 bath (1 loo) terrace 1960s house. Council tax is £170 over 10 months. Renters have to pay the same bills as owners and not all renters have home owners assistance. We don’t.
I don’t work. Would love to work. But it would make us worse off if it was beyond school hours as wrap round care is expensive. It’s £40 per day per child the last time I checked.
We manage fine and we are not entitled to top ups as he earns over 30k. I’m not sure how they get benefits on such a big income?
We don’t even get disability allowance despite one child having a permanent disability. I do claim child benefit for my state pension.