To think WFH is stupid on its own?

[zafferana]

To be clear, I think WFH again is stupid anyway and we have to just live with this fucking virus, but with everyone going out to bars, clubs, theatres, etc, what is the point of telling people to WFH again? It will just damage the economy and I doubt it will do much to stop the spread of Covid if everyone is still out partying and Christmas shopping.

London was HEAVING at the weekend, which WFH will do nothing to alleviate. I'm so sick of these stupid rules now. Before we could all get vaccinated, fine, we had nothing else did we, so WFH, SD, etc made sense, but now I think it's all stupid. We're going to get new iterations of this bloody virus every six months, so how about we sort out the NHS, since that's the perennial excuse for all these irritating rules, and then let people make their own judgement call on what they consider safe to do. And if you choose to get unvaccinated, on your head be it.

It cuts down on contacts. Most people don't go to the pub or cinema for hours five days a week.

The economic argument is interesting though. I was due to be somewhere on Monday that's now been moved to Zoom. So that means I won't spend on public transport (about £10) and won't buy lunch on the way home as I usually do (about £12 from M&S). I'll no doubt spend the same money online on something else though and likely with a smaller/independent business.

You’re being unreasonable. When I think of all the times I’ve caught colds/bugs from people in the office (“there’s something going round the office”) compared to someone in a shop…. It’s pretty obvious that avoiding spending 8+ hours a day sat with other people can reduce the number of infections. Closing non-essential shops etc will have a higher impact on the economy. Pubs/restaurants - yes probably a source of infections, but if you’re not meeting people in a pub you’ll probably meet them at home so not sure you’d avoid much social contact - unless you go for more stringent restrictions on social contact which has a greater impact on people’s mental health than WFH. Moving to WFH is effective without ruining most people’s lives (recognise it’s shit for some people though).

@zafferana

You don't know I'm unqualified *@KangSaeByeok*.

Ok sure, share your qualifications and your access to the source data.

[quote Unsure33]@Franklin12

I agree and if people knew fully the wages and money spent by the nhs trusts, many of whose leaders are paid more than the pm I think they would be shocked .

The nhs trusts to me have not achieved what they were supposed to do and it was actually a Labour government who approved them I believe.[/quote]
Agreed - we had an NHS trust rent office space in our building about 10 years ago and they used to waste so much money (for example booking and paying for days worth of meeting room hire every couple of weeks and rarely actually using them etc etc).

YANBU. Imagine how it feels to know, as someone who can't WFH, that you are completely disposable; that's even worse.

@Lightswitch123

Feels to me like civil servants once again want to be at home for school holidays.

Despicable

This but not just civil servants. Trying to get people together for a meeting when they've all got varying school drop off/pick up times, or if the children are at home are splitting childcare with the other parent/inflexible about lunch break as they want a 'family lunch'. Drives me mad. Having flexibility due to wfh is great, taking an utter liberty because of it isn't.

I agree - WFH but go to the pub. Crazy and it’s clearly because Rishi won’t bail out hospitality again

Angry at morons who won’t get vaxxed

WFH is a relatively straightforward way of cutting unnecessary contact between people, mainly by reducing the number of people on public transport and limiting close contact in the workplace. If a job can be done from home, why shouldn't it?

If you reduce the number of people on public transport they will either cut the service or put up prices (or both)

I agree it's a shame for small independent coffee shops etc (not the chains, Pret et al can just change their business model), but equally I don't think people should be corralled back into the office just to keep Joe Blogg's Cafe afloat.

Why would you not have sympathy with chains? they are mainly staffed by workers on low wages or NMW.

Its easy to think wfh won't have an impact but it will - not just hospitality either. Gyms will probably close or reduce staff and classes. A friend who is a hairdresser in London has had a really quiet few months even coming up to Xmas- presumably because people are getting their hair cut closer to home. I'm not saying people shouldn't wfh but its naive to think there will be minimal impact. And what are the businesses relying on office workers meant to do, without furlough or grants?

@zafferana

Okay, to clarify, WFH will damage the kind of businesses that benefit from people going into their places of work. I appreciate that other businesses should be unaffected, but WFH will further damage the economy, because many office workers will just hole up at home again

Why will it damage the economy, money is just spent elsewhere so instead of coffee shops you buy extra from supermarkets, so money into the economy. You will require heating in this weather, so you pay more, perhaps your company less, but then again they might just keep the building heated who knows. And don’t forget last time people worked from home lots did all those jobs that needed doing, so money into the economy. They save money on travel again, the m8net will be spent again in the summer months

Added to which it’s got to benefit the environment, no cars travelling, etc

Ok it’s not for everyone but there can be big benefits

The vaccines don't prevent transmission, but they do mean most people don't get really sick or die. So IMO we should all be allowed to crack on.

But they still get sick and can’t work, for many that means SSP only, just look at the threads on MN on those who can’t live on SSP. Not to mention the impact of businesses of people going off sick.

It’s a balancing act, yes we need to live with it, when case numbers are low. As case numbers increase it’s not just the impact on the NHS but also the impact on businesses who see increased sickness, and the mental health of those who are ill who can’t afford to be off work, and let’s not get started on the impact of covid in schools buggering up the kids education even further

Maybe that's how you feel but not everyone goes clubbing or eats out at lunchtime.

I don't like the isolation of full time wfh but if it means the schools stay open and we can still see family, I'll live with it.

@Exhausteddog

WFH is a relatively straightforward way of cutting unnecessary contact between people, mainly by reducing the number of people on public transport and limiting close contact in the workplace. If a job can be done from home, why shouldn't it?

If you reduce the number of people on public transport they will either cut the service or put up prices (or both)

I agree it's a shame for small independent coffee shops etc (not the chains, Pret et al can just change their business model), but equally I don't think people should be corralled back into the office just to keep Joe Blogg's Cafe afloat.

Why would you not have sympathy with chains? they are mainly staffed by workers on low wages or NMW.

Its easy to think wfh won't have an impact but it will - not just hospitality either. Gyms will probably close or reduce staff and classes. A friend who is a hairdresser in London has had a really quiet few months even coming up to Xmas- presumably because people are getting their hair cut closer to home. I'm not saying people shouldn't wfh but its naive to think there will be minimal impact. And what are the businesses relying on office workers meant to do, without furlough or grants?

They way public transport is funded changed during the pandemic, they're now paid by the government to run a service and the government gets the fairs revenue. The whole system needs and is getting an overhaul anyway. Perhaps this is the opportunity to increase local bus services (which have been cut to the bone as people commute further to work) rather than just the into major city transit.

I save no money working from home. I walk to the office, so don't drive or use public transport, and always take my own lunch in. I am spending more wfh as I have the heating on.

Working from home means vulnerable people who might not be so protected by the vaccine or people who are just more cautious aren’t forced into offices and on to public transport. These people would already be avoiding bars and clubs.

As one of these people, yes exactly this.
Those who choose to go to social gatherings still can, if that's what they want to do.

It’s not really comparable is it? You would be in the office every day vs maybe going to the pub once a week at most. One is clearly higher risk than the other.

Depends on your office. We have a skeleton staff so tiny number of us in a huge room and we have to follow social distancing rules, wear masks, keep windows open ...
1 trip to a busy pub is way more of a risk than many days in the office.

Wfh can affect the economy.

No one using public transport - in London that will affect the already struggling tube service.

All the places of hospitality that make money from commuters and office workers who will lose income. And their employees who maybe on zero hours contracts who won't be needed to work and no furlough.

I agree it seems bare minimum if you can socialise as you please. Most places of work still have many more restrictions and mitigations than people will have drunk in a pub! Also you can still mix households and people will spread it there. Hopefully schools closing for the 2 weeks break will help somewhat as spread in schools still remains one of the highest places.

@user7514254

If you don’t want to WFH don’t but stop moaning about it to the rest of us. WFH stops virus transmission and helps the environment, which I am guessing from your rhetoric you don’t give a toss about.

Absolutely this.

And in many jobs, it has improved efficiency. My caseload has doubled, now that I don't have to travel miles to meet clients face to face. That wouldn't have been doable if we were still working normally.