Page 4 | This idea that women need to get married for financial protection is bizarre

CeeceeBloomingdale · 09/12/2021 06:04

Because women are more likely to drop to part time hours and do most of the childcare. Often that means working a job at a lower grade to fit around the family. My DH earns 4 times my part time salary, I am reliant on him so need financial protection. We are similarly educated and able to work but he got more career breaks than me and reached a higher level. I/we wanted to raise my own children as much as possible rather than work more and use paid childcare. Whilst happy to do that I need financial security. My pension is laughable.

CloudyStorms · 09/12/2021 06:12

In 2019, only 28.5% of mothers with children below 14 years old reduced their working hours to accommodate childcare does this include mothers with children who reduced their hours eg. 3 years earlier with a first child so when asked in 2019 they still worked the same reduced hours?

ToykotoLosAngeles · 09/12/2021 06:14

Dependent children includes children up to 18. Just because in the snapshot in 2019 a woman is full time, doesn't mean she has never gone part time.

Exactly. If you'd asked me in March 2020 I had been made redundant with a 1 year old. Now, I'm part time with a 3 year old. In 2 years I will be full time with a school-ager.

I'm sure a lot of parents with 15 year olds have no logistical issue doing 9-5!

GrandmasCat · 09/12/2021 06:15

Prince charming /Cinderella /Knight in shining amour Hollywood myth has a lot to answer for. It's directed at young female children from an early age and results in women being unnecessarily reliant on men, with unrealistic expectations of them.

Please don’t blame it on Disney, the main influence is at home. While so many men continue to concentrate in their careers while so many women continue to reduce their work hours/financial independence to be there for the kids, we are teaching our sons and daughters that that is the “correct” way to go about it. We PARENTS are setting the example and expectations for the next generation.

HalfWomanHalfMincePie · 09/12/2021 06:19

It's not being said to the majority of women, though, is it? It's usually being said to women who have quit their jobs to care for children

Basically this.

Velvian · 09/12/2021 06:19

As well as being part time at various times, due to childcare, I have also not applied for promotions, as there can't be 2 of us unable to get to after school club by 6.

I don't need anyone to discrimate against me, I'm perfectly capable of crippling my own career for my children's needs and wishes. I'm sure many women are the same. DC need a parent that will be there for them and men/boys are not brought up to make those sacrifices.

On the other side of the coin, DH doesn't actually need his boss to tell him to prioritise work over his share of domestic responsibilities, he does that on his own. Gender roles are still entrenched, even in parents that reject them in theory.

There are other issues, of high earners paying low paid workers for childcare, cleaning, social care... Jobs predominantly done by women. Those low paid workers are effectively subsidising the wages of the higher earner by doing their domestic/family jobs for them.

Until we really value those roles, financially and with respect, even when they are carried out by a mum, wife, daughter, things will not change.

We can't all be high earning "career" types. Someone still has to do those low paid/unpaid jobs

echt · 09/12/2021 06:27

@NewFem

I’ve encountered this view so many times here and it doesn’t make any amount of sense to me. Can someone please explain this to me how it applies to modern life?

Girls go to school and receive the exact same quality of education that boys do.
Girls, I read outperform boys in SATs, GCSEs and at A-level.
Girls attend university at higher rates than boys do, across most ethnicities in the UK.
Girls outnumber boys in highly paid professions like medicine.
Girls also study science, technology, engineering and maths subjects at university in increasing numbers.

Women are perfectly capable of being educated, having a high salary and making a living for themselves. I know plenty of women who are homeowners by themselves and manage to buy a house individually with no help. So why is there still this idea that we need men for financial security. It doesn’t make sense.

When it comes to children and childbirth, most women don’t give up their careers so protection doesn’t apply to them either. I looked this up, in 2019, 75.1% of mothers in the UK were in work. In 2020, 71.8% of mothers in the UK were in work.

In 2019, only 28.5% of mothers with children below 14 years old reduced their working hours to accommodate childcare. This means most women (71.5%) did not reduce or limit their working hours. So it isn’t true for the majority of mothers that most women give up working after they’ve had children or that a man’s career remains unaffected and a woman’s career declines because of childcare. Therefore we need marriage to have protection.

At least this is my opinion based on data and my own life experiences. Open to hear other points of view though

What is your point?

Heronwatcher · 09/12/2021 06:34

I’ve never seen that view offered generally, just to those that do the classic give up work to become a SAHM/ provide full time unpaid childcare/ invest time and money in a house not in their name, in which case the advice is completely sound.

Shoxfordian · 09/12/2021 06:39

Marriage affords you with some degree of legal protection if the relationship ends and you’re either a sahm or part time or not earning as much because of the kids. If you’re both high earners, no children, etc then perhaps marriage isn’t as necessary but then you still have inheritance tax benefits so it’s sensible to be married.

I would always advise anyone thinking of having children and some associated time off from work to be married though

Stephthegreat · 09/12/2021 06:49

The vast majority of women I know truly believe you must be married (preferably to a wealthy man or one with good prospects). It’s very old fashioned and seems bizarre to me but, yes, it’s what they believe.

The truth is that many women just don’t want to work, they want to be a sahm and even if they could work they wouldn’t.

EnidFrighten · 09/12/2021 06:49

Ah you've rumbled us love, we've been making it up all along!

CloudyStorms · 09/12/2021 06:49

@EnidFrighten

Ah you've rumbled us love, we've been making it up all along!

Hahaha

Stephthegreat · 09/12/2021 06:51

@HalfWomanHalfMincePie

It's not being said to the majority of women, though, is it? It's usually being said to women who have quit their jobs to care for children

Basically this.

Understandable when the children are little but when they are school age I don’t understand why women wouldn’t want to work.

BusBusBus · 09/12/2021 06:57

There is lots of evidence that women do the following in much greater numbers than men

Work part time - as many as 40% will work part time at some point.
Take parental leave/mat leave
Seek work closer to home for childcare reasons.(that may be lower paid)
Avoid overtime
Seek out more flexible work
Seek out less stressful work
Avoid promotion

There is only one thing men do more frequently than women on the birth of a child and its seek out higher paid work

Stephthegreat · 09/12/2021 06:57

@Velvian

As well as being part time at various times, due to childcare, I have also not applied for promotions, as there can't be 2 of us unable to get to after school club by 6.

I don't need anyone to discrimate against me, I'm perfectly capable of crippling my own career for my children's needs and wishes. I'm sure many women are the same. DC need a parent that will be there for them and men/boys are not brought up to make those sacrifices.

On the other side of the coin, DH doesn't actually need his boss to tell him to prioritise work over his share of domestic responsibilities, he does that on his own. Gender roles are still entrenched, even in parents that reject them in theory.

There are other issues, of high earners paying low paid workers for childcare, cleaning, social care... Jobs predominantly done by women. Those low paid workers are effectively subsidising the wages of the higher earner by doing their domestic/family jobs for them.

Until we really value those roles, financially and with respect, even when they are carried out by a mum, wife, daughter, things will not change.

We can't all be high earning "career" types. Someone still has to do those low paid/unpaid jobs

‘Men/boys are not brought up to make those sacrifices’

My grandmother would have said this, it shows how we are no better off as women nowadays!

PooWillyNameChange · 09/12/2021 06:58

I would be included in the larger stat of women in work, however I could earn £15-20k in another organisation and don't because this one allows flexible working. I still work full time but pause in the day to do wife work (i.e. the school run). I've also taken 3X maternity leaves which will have slowed my progression, whichever way you cut it. It may not be as extreme as a SAHM example as I'm a higher rate tax payer, but I went to a top 5 uni and got a traditional degree and earn half the wage of my husband who left school at 17. Some of that is luck, some his superior skill perhaps, but I definitely attribute a proportion to sacrifices I've made to be a mother. If we were not married I would definitely be out consulting and earning much more to ensure my pension is as bolstered as his.

Usually this advice is offered to either SAHMs or women without their name on the property (surprisingly common on here!) who would be completely fucked in the event of a split.

GoodnightGrandma · 09/12/2021 06:59

I worked hospital shifts when I had my first. There is no way I could have continued that job and had children on my own.

MyOtherProfile · 09/12/2021 07:03

So many people have explained the stats to the OP but they still don't get it. The state just don't say what the OP thought.

I'm glad the idea of marriage as protection gets raised over and over on here because for so many women it is true.

MyOtherProfile · 09/12/2021 07:03

And can make a massive difference.

RockinHorseShit · 09/12/2021 07:07

Not bizarre at all, not everyone fits your idea of how it is by far, plus things can change post birth where you no longer want the full on career you once loved as you miss out on too much of your DC

YerAWizardHarry · 09/12/2021 07:07

I went back to work full time after maternity however I was so far from being financially independent it was laughable. EVERY SINGLE PENNY I earned went on nursery fees

Goldbar · 09/12/2021 07:08

As an aside, I'm not sure that school-age kids are always easier than nursery-age kids. OK, your childcare bill goes down, but the amount of wraparound care you have to cobble together if the school doesn't offer a decent breakfast club and after-school club is a nightmare. And primary schools seem to operate on the basis of children having a SAHP. Nursery may be expensive but at least it is set up for working parents.

tallduckandhandsome · 09/12/2021 07:08

Hmm, thing is that advice about women needing to marry for financial and legal protection, aka access to a share of a man’s money is given here to women as a whole.

That’s not true, the advice is if you’re the one with the assets then don’t get married.

Who is going to tell a woman with a house in her name, higher salary, working full time etc to marry the cocklodger who begrudges doing childcare?

The first thing people ask here is what is the housing situation.

oviraptor21 · 09/12/2021 07:08

In 2019, only 28.5% of mothers with children below 14 years old reduced their working hours to accommodate childcare. This means most women (71.5%) didnotreduce or limit their working hours. So it isn’t true for the majority of mothers that most women give up working after they’ve had children or that a man’s career remains unaffected and a woman’s career declines because of childcare. Therefore we need marriage to have protection.

Where did you get this stat from as it in no way matches up with my experience.
Out of three school classes of parents (so around 90 mums) the vast majority had reduced (usually much reduced) hours or took low paid work which fitted around their partner's higher paid work.
There were perhaps one or two women in each class who continued to work full time.

Fernintheforest · 09/12/2021 07:08

What are the legal and financial protections marriage provides?