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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there needs to be a clearer diagnosis than just Autism?

344 replies

wiklowarrior · 04/12/2021 05:58

As in, 'Autism such and such'.

I'm a professional woman, had a good job (before becoming a carer), married, nice home, friends. I'm also autistic, which was once diagnosed as Asperger's (and is what I was given). That's no longer the case now. As a child, I was eccentric to other people, always played alone, unless my nightmare routine was disturbed. Spoke extensively about my favourite things in great detail. Then you'd see more obvious signs. Overall though the entire thing leaves me exhausted. It's the masking that does a lot of that.

DS was diagnosed with autism before he was 3.

He can't speak a single word, and doesn't respond to simple language communication such as 'Get shoes'. He is a complete flight risk, would run into roads in a flash. He is in nappies. Never been able to toilet train him, despite numerous efforts (of which were all very obvious weren't going to work, because he does not communicate and doesn't seem to have a desire to). He is hyperactive, climbing another danger. He runs face first into walls. Attacks me, attacks other children and just anyone really. He destroys most things I've ever owned really. But very clever at working out locks and reaching high places. I see the frustration in his face every day and it breaks my heart. My own autism is exhausting.

Can you imagine then if I couldn't speak a single word, have the ability to use sign language despite years of effort? Couldn't use picture exchange? Couldn't even POINT to what I want or need? It's obviously very much a harder deal for him. His autism is severe. And I think a label for that would be useful without having to go into detail in multiple examples of telling people about him being autistic.

He does not attend the local SEND school specifically for communication disorders because he's too disabled by his autism. He attends a very good special needs school for a variety of very complex medical and autistic needs and it's the best school for him.

Yes I know masking is hard, even for those of us appearing 'high functioning'. But at least we have the option? Surely? DS and others like him don't.

OP posts:
MorkandMandy · 07/12/2021 12:59

I understand OP. Also, with there being increased attention on the features of girls and women presenting with ASD (which can sometimes feels almost in complete opposition with the previously used triad features of ASD) the plot thickens. It seems so hugely encompassing but people typically have a very fixed idea of the presentation.

My D niece has an excess of empathy and it’s often misdirected. She’s hugely creative and intelligent and immersive in her own imaginary play, but similarly my D nephew has ASD that presents with almost the opposite.

santasmuma · 07/12/2021 13:15

@CatJumperTwat

The person who can no longer walk due to the arthritis does not need a separate diagnosis.

There isn't a very vocal contingent of people self-diagnosed with arthritis shouting that arthritis isn't a disease and doesn't need to be "treated" because it isn't an illness, just a difference. That's why autism is different.

Yeah sorry. Osteoarthritis was a bad example anyway but I was taking about the need for a separate diagnosis in terms of professional help, not other peoples opinions, self diagnosed or otherwise.

Elephantsparade · 07/12/2021 13:54

Interesting article from the lancet. I think we will see profound autism being used more and more.

It just a shame that a bit of human compassion and investment in services would prevent a lot of the issues of a broad diagnosis from existing anyway.

User2638483 · 07/12/2021 14:07

I know it’s a complex area but I agree with you OP.
My dd js awaiting assessment and I’m expecting her to get an ASD diagnosis.
I can already see that if I choose to talk to people about it I’ll probably say ‘what used to be called aspergers” because I think that will make the most sense to them.

Teenylittlefella · 07/12/2021 14:24

"My D niece has an excess of empathy and it’s often misdirected. She’s hugely creative and intelligent and immersive in her own imaginary play, but similarly my D nephew has ASD that presents with almost the opposite."

That's because differences within the triad (social interaction, social communication, flexible thinking) is better understood as "unusual in scope, intensity or duration" than as "deficient in" - though they can be deficient.

Many autistic people without significant LD (ie, articulate enough to express their inner experiences) express that they are extremely sensitive to the moods of others and find the degree of sensitivity so painful that this is part of the need to withdraw socially. This is certainly the case for my son who is hypersensitive to anxiety, upset or anger in others (and tends to misperceive this as due to him). He finds it so unbearable that he prefers to be alone.

hivemindneeded · 07/12/2021 14:26

I completely agree with you OP. DS2 is diagnosed with autism. I was told at the diagnosis, 'He is absolutely textbook Aspergers but we can't use that term any more. We have to say On the spectrum' [Hmm]

DS is now at uni. He has had a lot of difficulties and spends a lot of time masking which he finds phenomenally exhausting and sometimes he just can't. He also fugues when stressed which a lot of people don't understand. I feel embarrassed discussing his needs (which are complex, as I'm sure yours have been over the years) with friends whose children can't speak and won't ever function unaided. It feels very unhelpful to lump such diverse symptoms together in one name.

I really objected to ASD which is what we were told was the right terminology when DS was diagnosed, because disability and different ability lines blur at that level of HFA (another term that's problematic as a PP has said, because of its implied ableist language.)

Latenightpharma · 07/12/2021 15:34

@hivemindneeded

I completely agree with you OP. DS2 is diagnosed with autism. I was told at the diagnosis, 'He is absolutely textbook Aspergers but we can't use that term any more. We have to say On the spectrum' [Hmm]

DS is now at uni. He has had a lot of difficulties and spends a lot of time masking which he finds phenomenally exhausting and sometimes he just can't. He also fugues when stressed which a lot of people don't understand. I feel embarrassed discussing his needs (which are complex, as I'm sure yours have been over the years) with friends whose children can't speak and won't ever function unaided. It feels very unhelpful to lump such diverse symptoms together in one name.

I really objected to ASD which is what we were told was the right terminology when DS was diagnosed, because disability and different ability lines blur at that level of HFA (another term that's problematic as a PP has said, because of its implied ableist language.)

Regardless of whether we need a separate term for those most impacted by autism, I don't understand why it would be weird to say that your son has a disability. 'differently abled' is a buzzword people tend to use because they feel uncomfortable with the word disabled, and my disability does not disappear because someone else happens to be more disabled than I am. If your DS struggles at times and has as you say 'complex needs', then surely he has a disability? Or do you only feel uncomfortable around that if you are surrounded by people who have family members in need of 24/7 care? What about around other people? How does your DS feel about being autistic?

I get the need for differentiation, but getting tagged with aspergers can really suck. Every time I can't do something, people are disappointed, angry, or downright hostile. Because apparently aspergers is just a social life problem, and the fact that I can't always take myself to the toilet, remember to eat, or understand when I'm dirty is purely because I'm not applying myself and I'm lazy, nothing to do with being disabled. Watching my family suffer years of abuse because it was assumed they could be independent has been really sad. Being in school with a fracture because I couldn't advocate I was in pain was really stressful. Being misrepresented is an issue for more than just those with profound difficulties unfortunately, so I'm not sure how separate classifications actually solve anything. It risks putting people in boxes regardless of where they are on the spectrum; how do we make sure that does not happen? Does 'profound' actually clear anything up at all, because it doesn't for me. I can get from it that it isn't talking about me, but it also doesn't quite tell me who it is talking about, where the line is. Or who exactly this label is for. I think a lot more research needs to be done into this stuff, that would help a bit I hope.

lifeturnsonadime · 07/12/2021 15:44

This may have already been posted but if a person's autism appears to you to be mild it may be down to their ability to mask.

You have no idea what challenges they face.

I have two autistic children, both with spiky profiles, they mask incredibly well to outsiders most of the time. Their needs, sensory difficulties and ability to function in a neuro typical world are anything but mild.

It is incredibly difficult to put more labels on autism. A person with a learning disability is not necessarily more severely affected by autism than a person without autism. A person without a learning disability is more aware of their neurological differences, this brings with it often crippling anxiety and depression, not to mention the sensory differences that many autistic people experience.

MorkandMandy · 07/12/2021 16:28

Very well put @Teenylittlefella. That’s a really good point.

MorkandMandy · 07/12/2021 16:32

@Teenylittlefella I’m sorry your son withdraws - that’s hard. It results in chronic indecision to the point of just being completely unable to cope for DN and I do think she’s started to take herself out of situations because of that.

Justrealised · 07/12/2021 16:46

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inspectrum/202112/lancet-commission-calls-new-category-profound-autism?fbclid=IwAR29tvL94TmAP7FETf3NWcpPKbAkeZIIVjillSP2DKIn1b9jh76nDtYr1gk

Yesterday, the Lancet Commission on the future of care and clinical research on autism — a group of 32 researchers, clinicians, family members, and self-advocates from around the world — releaseda comprehensive 64-page reportdetailing changes that should be made over the next five years to improve the quality of life ofautisticpeople and their families.

Besides a common-sense call for individualized, incrementalized, evidence-based interventions, one of the Commission’s key recommendations is to carve out the most impaired section of the spectrum and give it its own label of “profound autism,” which would include autistic individuals who also have significant intellectual disability (IQbelow 50), minimal or no language, and who require round-the-clock supervision and assistance with activities of daily living. The Commission expresses “hope that [the introduction of “profound autism”] will spur both the clinical and research global communities to prioritise the needs of this vulnerable and underserved group of autistic individuals.”

This move represents just the most recent example of a growing dissatisfaction with the monolithic diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder that was introduced in DSM-5 eight years ago in place of more narrowly defined categories such asAspergerSyndrome, Autistic Disorder, and Pervasive Developmental Disability, Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS). Last month, the National Council on Severe Autism (NCSA) — on whose board I serve — issueda position statementcalling for a “distinct, stand-alone diagnostic category” for the most impaired, and the use of “autisms” rather than “autism” to emphasize the extraordinarily diverse presentations of the disorder has been popular for several years at the most prominent autism conferences, such as the International Society for Autism Research (INSAR).

It’s not that the architects of the DSM revision failed to acknowledge the need for precision with their Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) diagnosis. But their framework — which includes both specifiers (such as intellectual impairment, language impairment, catatonia, and others) as well as severity levels (1-3, with 3 being the most severe) to attach to problems with perseverative behavior and social communication — is, as the Lancet Commission aptly points out, “not easily or consistently used in practice or in research.” Instead, a law school graduate and a man who spends his days watching Teletubbies in a diaper and a helmet may both be described as “autistic.”

This muddle has had catastrophic consequences for those who, like my son Jonah, fall under the category of profound autism. Not only hastheir exclusion from research been well-documented, but their policy needs and preferences have been eclipsed by those of high-functioning autistic self-advocates who have spearheaded the ongoing fight to close the intensive, disability-specific settings that are often most appropriate for those who struggle withaggression,self-injury, and elopement. As the Commission noted, the most affected population is "at risk of being marginalized by a focus on more able.

And this is not a small group. Perhaps the most alarming part of the Lancet Commission’s report is their prevalence estimate for profound autism. Based on studies from around the world, the authors suggest that between 18-48% of the almost 80 million autistic people in the world meet their criteria. This means there may be as many as 40 million individuals whose cognitive disabilities precludecareer,marriage,parenthood, and independent living — and 40 million families whose lives revolve around helping them create joyful and meaningful lives anyway. Recognizing that their disorder is qualitatively different from those at the other end of the spectrum is the first step towards targeting research and clinical practice to treat their often incapacitating symptoms.

For “profound autism” to become an official diagnostic category, it would have to be adopted by the AmericanPsychiatricAssociation’sDiagnostic and Statistical Manual(DSM), and/or the World Health Organization’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD). Hopefully, the Lancet Commission won’t stop with this important report, but will continue to press these organizations to introduce meaningful sub-classifications into what has become, to some, an essentially meaningless diagnosis.

Sarahplane · 07/12/2021 19:32

I totally agree OP. My DS and D Nephew are the same age and both autistic but the level of their needs and ability to function are polls apart. My nephew was diagnosed when he was 3, is 10 and completely none verbal. At a special school thay struggles to cope with him. Gets so extremely anxious that he frequently hurts others and himself by head butting walls so hard he has given himself concussion even through a special helmet. He will never live independently and needs 2 to 1 care. My DS on the other hand struggles socially and academically and needs extra supervision due to a lack of common sense, occasionally has violent meltdowns but this is getting better. He will be able to live independently, work etc. We are also now realising that my 16 year old DD may also be autistic. She is very bright and her language has always bitt very good but she really struggles with social communication, sensory issues etc - more like typical aspergers but has been making making years but her struggles are becoming more obvious as she gets older.

BessieFinknottle · 07/12/2021 20:03

Thank you very much for the links Justrealised.

Justrealised · 07/12/2021 20:47

@BessieFinknottle you're welcome

parietal · 07/12/2021 21:26

Just came to post the same news as @Justrealised

here is another summary
www.spectrumnews.org/news/first-of-its-kind-commission-defines-profound-autism-issues-recommendations/

hivemindneeded · 07/12/2021 22:03

@Latenightpharma - those are good questions. I suppose I feel that the way he functions is just different. I find the disabled tag a bit problematic because it carries an implication that there is a norm people should strive to conform to and I think that pressure puts a lot of stress on autistic people to mask so neurotypical people don't have to make any effort. But you are right that he feels at a disadvantage socially often. I suppose it comes down to what disabled means and what ipeople think it means.

BlankTimes · 08/12/2021 00:32

The diagnostic criteria for ASD in DSM5 define it as a disability, see the limit and impair everyday functioning wording.

“persistent difficulties with social communication and social interaction” and “restricted and repetitive patterns of behaviours, activities or interests” (this includes sensory behaviour), present since early childhood, to the extent that these “limit and impair everyday functioning”.

More here
www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/diagnostic-criteria/all-audiences

LobsterNapkin · 08/12/2021 02:41

As it is being used now I think, for everyday conversations, it makes things difficult.

But maybe what's more to the point is that they really don't know if all these kids have the same thing. Whatever is going on inside them may not be the same, and whatever caused it may not be the same.

My own feeling is that while maybe there are some similarities around parts of the brain that are effected, so overlap in symptoms, there may be totally different causes.

MaHBroon · 08/12/2021 03:19

Besides a common-sense call for individualized, incrementalized, evidence-based interventions, one of the Commission’s key recommendations is to carve out the most impaired section of the spectrum and give it its own label of “profound autism,” which would include autistic individuals who also have significant intellectual disability (IQbelow 50), minimal or no language, and who require round-the-clock supervision and assistance with activities of daily living

It seems the commission are now wanting to go full circle and go back to the days of when a diagnosis of ‘Classic Kanners autism’ would be given to the individuals described above. Even the ‘profoundly’ bit isn’t new as it’s also how my sons autism was described in his diagnosis by Lorna Wing and Judith Gould - Classic Kanners autism which is profound autism.

Over the years I’ve instinctively ignored all of the new names etc given to Autism and I’m pleased that I did because that sentence from the commissions could have easily been whittled down to - the last 35 years have been a load of bollocks.

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