About schools, temperatures and coats?

[FlumpyLump]

My 11 year old son is currently wrapped up in blankets with the heating on full blast and he is still shivering and can’t get warm. He has come home from school like this.
He is in year 7 (also asthmatic) and they have a no coat policy. They aren’t allowed to wear it on the premises and it has to be locked away during school hours. They are only allowed to wear their school uniform around school.
It has been minus 3 where we live today and full of snow. They have the windows wide open in the classrooms as well due to covid. He said he sits near a window and it’s always cold. Apparently, a child was close to tears today because they were shivering that badly and couldn’t concentrate.
During dinner breaks, they are kicked outside with no coats allowed. They also weren’t allowed to run around in the snow so they were standing around freezing.
I bought him a plain black scarf to help keep the cold off his chest and he was told to remove that as well.
I’m worried about covid obviously, but my son also suffers with his asthma in cold temperatures and he gets very poorly this time of year with it. They know this.
It’s madness.

This school sounds ridiculous OP definitely complain or just keep him off!! Offer for him to dial in remotely.

Goodness it was the opposite at my kids (private) school. The primary kids had to wear their coats outside during breaks (the secondaries could choose whether or not to), and in summer have to wear hats in the sun.
What is the reason behind this policy? I just do not see why they can't wear them when going outside, and inside if the room temperature is below a level (or child is sitting by an open window.
One thing I've learned in my 59 years is to speak my mind and in face of this ridiculous policy I'd be demanding a meeting with the head.

@SoSoTiredToday

This happened to my then year 4 boy last winter. I sent him in the next day in long John's, coat, hat and with a hot water bottle and emailed the school to say please please don't take it off him. They said health and safety risk to the hot water bottle so took it off him! Next day he was very poorly and missed a week of school. When he went back it was mysteriously warmer!

I don't think all adult teachers, with warm offices and electric heaters are necessarily aware how small and skinny little kids, even year 7 and 8 kids, can be. The kids need to warm up inside at points during the day. Otherwise they may not catch covid but they will be extremely ill with other bugs, and cold related problems .

Probably not a mystery - the room was probably the same temperature throughout. It would have felt he cold because he was running a low grade temperature (ie the very start of the illness) Once recovered, all back to normal.

So I agree, OP, with poster who suggested you take your DS's temperature.

And do a fact check on what he is saying - is it really school policy, or is it the effects of peer pressure?

Thermal underwear always a good idea in winter

I would find it very hard to believe that pupils are not allowed to wear coats outside at break times. I would definitely double check this with the school. It's very difficult for pupils and staff in schools during this cold weather - layering up is the way to go.

If he has his coat with him in lessons, is he allowed to put it over his legs like a blanket? Or does it have to be on the back of the chair?

I concur with PPs re thermal layers.

I'm a primary school teacher, the children are allowed to wear coats, it really does make a difference!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I was a teacher for 25 years. The reasons kids get sent out in secondary in all but the most vile weather, is because there is no one to supervise them inside.

You can’t get dinner time staff ( and who would want that job?!) staff are meant to only do break duty and before and after school. Staff also have to eat lunch and mark books at dinner time, so there just isn’t the supervision

OP isn’t really complaining about him being sent outside though, but about him being sent out and not allowed a coat. Which is obviously not a supervision issue.

This is absolutely ridiculous! DD (9) has asked to wear a vest this past week, temps are -3 here and snow. The teachers air the classrooms for 5 mins at the end of every lesson and longer in breaks. Everyone 10 years or older has to wear a mask at all times inside. And everyone is allowed to wear a coat at break times.

Reread your uniform policy. What does it specify about school trousers? Could a pair of plain black ski trousers still fit the uniform code?

"This was government policy, not the unionshmm but if it was the unions, congratulations to them for protecting the health and safety of their members. What arseholes eh?"

What about the health and safety of the children? You wouldn't be allowed to let adults freeze in an office, but it's fine for children as they don't have a voice.

I know. Another poster was complaining about kids being forced out at dinner time.

I think if the teachers are in the classrooms with the kids, then yes they’ll be freezing too.

And it was Dept for Education who instigated it as ‘ventilation’ Schools in Europe and America actually had proper ventilation installed. This is what the unions actually wanted. Not for kids and teachers to freeze their arses off.

"think you'll find the decision about coats, etc. is not at classroom teacher level"

Well they need to speak up then. What is it with some people who just blindly follow stupid rules without questioning them?

my dd has similar problem.
windows open and no coats /extra layers allowed.

yesterday when it was really cold, I sent her in in her pe hoodie under her blazer, and said I don't care if you get uniform points if you don;t .

One teacher asked her ot remove it, she was sitting next to a window, so she said she will remove it if she can shut the window. They shut the window.

she was already wearing t-shirt and leggings under her uniform

I just don't understand the reasoning behind no coats. Having all the windows open is not normal in winter, so therefore change the sodding uniform rules so that they can accommodate the open windows!

sorry that should say no visible extra layers

I don’t understand how anyone can be doing any actual work. If I had windows or doors open in this weather my hands wouldn’t be working at all and I wouldn’t be able to think about anything except how cold I was. Poor kids and poor teachers.

My kids go to a fee paying school. During winter, everyone does what they can to keep warm so that the rooms can remain well ventilated., so coats, hats, scarves etc are warm. Seems madness to do otherwise?

YANBU, I wouldn't be happy either. Can you get him some thermal underwear?

I would ask to see the evidence that "outside clothes are a covid risk". Can you talk to other parents?

It is certainly a good thing that the windows are open though advice on how much does vary. However, the evidence that covid is passed on via clothes is - well, I haven't seen any! And how could there be a difference between coats and the clothes they wear underneath? They seem to have utterly got the wrong end of the stick there.

I assume someone in the school high up is desperately worried about covid, which is understandable, but they need to get hold of good scientifically informed guidance and not just make stuff up. Have a look at what SAGE recommend - they are all scientists - and ask on what basis the school justified going further than the SAGE guidance.

Good luck

Actaully there is SAGE guidance about ventilation as well, now I think of it, which should all be readily googleable.

Scottish government schools guidance is very clear that dress codes must be adapted to take into account reduced temperatures due to ventilation requirements.

Interestingly other countries are not making their children freeze with windows open etc . Once again this country is completely lacking , why can’t we look at other countries and see what they are doing . This government is ridiculous .

We've got exactly the same issue with DSD's school! Albeit they're allowed to wear their coats at lunch and to and from school but it was -4 here yesterday and the school have to have the windows wide open in every classroom for ventilation. One subject block has heating inside the classrooms so is ok but the others do not. The kids are freezing in lessons, but the school have a strict 'no coat' policy. I can't get my head around it. If the windows have to stay open for ventilation, I don't understand why they can't keep their costs on, it's not distracting learning. My DSD actually got a detention yesterday because the teacher was wearing her coat and told the students to remove theirs - my DSD asked why the teacher was allowed to keep hers on and they weren't. The teacher told her the policy didn't apply to teachers and she was given a detention for backchat. (I suspect she did have an attitude but it's a fair question IMO!)
They're also not allowed gloves, scarves etc and when we asked the school the temp within the classrooms; they didn't have thermometers but "assured us" it wasnt too cold. We're going to take it further; it's awful trying to work in cold conditions, especially when you're sat still at a desk!!

As a side note, I've not really heard of any teacher who thinks this is a good idea.

My asthmatic mum would be really unwell in these circumstances and my ASD kid would be miserable and he'd make damn sure everyone else is as well!

Interestingly other countries are not making their children freeze with windows open etc

Some parts of the US and Canada are, as well as making all over 2s wear masks all day in educational settings, including outdoors. I’ve read several reports about kids in NYC having to eat their lunch 2m apart on a concrete playground floor in temperatures barely above freezing - then replace their mask immediately afterwards to play with their friends.

It seems to be just us and the US with a lot of this stuff though - much of Europe for example seems to be a bit more enlightened and pragmatic. I suppose one big issue might be that many of our school buildings are either very old (Victorian) or cheaply built, and any attempt to retrofit all schools for good ventilation would involve massive upheaval and cost millions if not billions to achieve.

We have the CO2 monitors in our classrooms - with windows open they stay green/amber but with windows closed it rises at an absolutely alarming rate. So the choice is either freeze with windows open or sit in a unventilated room with the CO2 monitor flashing red! I try and open and close windows to keep a balance and air it out during breaks but honestly there's no good solution. Some of the rooms are very small and we've had Covid cases this term so I would prefer it to be ventilated. Luckily there's no rules on what students can/can't wear in class. But they do complain about being cold.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

And the teaching unions have decided that they want windows open, irrespective of what parents and children need or want

This was government policy, not the unions but if it was the unions, congratulations to them for protecting the health and safety of their members. What arseholes eh?

If it is -1 outside, with all windows open and no coats allowed then they are at far greater risk from hypothermia than from Covid.