There should be an upper limit on rental prices

[HereLiveIAmNotACat]

Am I the only one that thinks the property investment industry is horrendous and shows how awful, greedy and selfish mankind can be? Surely there should be laws around this? Or caps on the maximum profit a homeowner can make per month relative to any mortgage on the property?
How can it be right that rental prices are ludicrously above mortgage prices purely for the homeowners to benefit from someone else paying off their mortgage and make a pretty penny on top.. then moving on to their third, fourth houses etc..meanwhile renters are stuck forking up more than they can afford with little chance of ever making it onto the property ladder due to the impossibility of saving up whilst paying rent.
Unless you were fortunate enough to have a property in the 80s before inflation/money from family you’re screwed really.
Just means less and less rental properties being available. The rich getting richer the poor getting poorer. And it’s always ‘oh it’s brilliant we’ve paid that mortgage off and are making such and such per month renting out..we’re now moving to a much larger house in a much nicer area’ as if that’s something to be proud of?!

(Yes- bitter renter here)

@LittleGungHo my point was lots of people on this thread are saying how unprofitable it is, if that's the case stocks & shares may be a better option for them.

and it's less stressful!

That's too simplistic. I own a home & I don't think it's a good thing that prices keep going up. It's not good for society or the economy

I agree it's a simple opinion that's not worth of much debate, but you're talking about something different. You would have to be a landlord who would like to charge lower than market rents, to be a counter-example. (Many landlords on here claim to be this, but often it's a price they're paying to keep a good tenant, and I don't think those cases count.)

I believe market rents need to be charged, but like you I thing rising housing prices are a bad thing. So we're not in disagreement on your point.

I've lived in 4 rented properties and only had one decent landlord in that time. The house we are renting currently is not fit for purpose and landlord (family) still charge us a fortune.
I'm sick of landlords having lovely houses themselves while refusing to do basic maintenance on the house they are renting.
If landlords were not greedy they'd sell the house and give others a chance to get on the property ladder.
No one needs more than one house.

@lupad

Too many people taught the government will help them.

Do we scrap state pensions & the NHS then?

The NHS is being slowly privatised and the state pension is being eroded.

I am 35 and I have no expectation of there being a state pension in my lifetime that would support a normal life. The Government Actuary's Department (GAD estimates that the UK's state pension fund could run dry by 2033

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/health-care-bill-nhs-really-22287638.amp

www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2018/05/16/bid-farewell-to-the-state-pension/

@RandomLondoner I could "afford" to be a landlord but I don't want to be.

@lupad

That’s because of capital gain expectations. You might be making very little per year, but you are taking a gamble that the property will rise in value. I’d hazard a guess that for most small-time BTL landlords, it’s the capital gain they are really in it for - although depending on the area of the UK, it may be a gamble that doesn’t pay off.

@LittleGungHo I agree & slightly resent the new levy as I won't see any of it by the time I need care but I don't think that's a good thing. I'm lucky to have a good work pension & to get private healthcare through work & DH is having a small op next week because the wait is too long but I'm aware not everyone is in my position regardless of how hard they work.

@Bingbangbongbash it's disingenuous because as you say they are gambling on some gain

I'm surprised no-one has yet pointed out that a lot of the single property BTL landlords are doing it because the alternative (if you have savings) has been tiny interest rates since the base rate plummeted after the financial crisis.

Unlike other asset classes, if it all goes tits up, you can at least live in a house.

I thought the Scandinavian example was interesting. Their mortgage arrangements must be different too if rent is capped?

Having said that, although I am a responsible LL with everything up to date and a happy tenant, I was surprised when I started that there is no mandatory LL training course. There should be and there should also be an annual check from the local authority. That's the part that's too free market, not the financing.

No-one has mentioned either that since Covid; tenants are entitled to at least 6 months' notice of eviction and can't be removed without expensive legal action even if they're not paying rent.

I have some property bought out right, from my savings

As a younger person, I rented

Example
One property has not had a rent increase for 5+ years (my choice)
However, the expenses that I pay each year have increased eg insurance
Yes, the overall value of the property has increased
Some people would probably say, that I was not running the Business of being a Landlord to my advantage.

I am not in a position to rent the property out for a peppercorn rent

Not all LLs are unkind !

If you pay money for a hotel, air BnB, rent a holiday cottage they are never free or below market rate.

It's not just mortgage though, it's insurances and maintenance and so on.

But yes, it seems to me that a lot of landlords are horrendously greedy.

I'm surprised no-one has yet pointed out that a lot of the single property BTL landlords are doing it because the alternative (if you have savings) has been tiny interest rates since the base rate plummeted after the financial crisis.

This is a huge issue & the government should not have suppressed the rates for so long. It's been mismanaged since 08 & wage stagnation & low productivity is a legacy of that.

@50ShadesOfCatholic

It's not just mortgage though, it's insurances and maintenance and so on.

But yes, it seems to me that a lot of landlords are horrendously greedy.

Because media and people on here have said it doesn’t make it true.

@lupad

What’s disingenuous? You suggested that stocks & shares might be better since so many LL aren’t making much month to month, and I’m pointing out there are 2 avenues of profit for BTL - the rental income and the capital gain.

Show me an investment that does better than the London housing market and I’ll happily jump on board.

Is it right? Of course not. It’s gross. But it’s not down to individual landlords to fix, it’s down to the government.

Stop allowing sale of public land for private profit. Stop luxury developments marketed to overseas buyers with no intention to add to the community. Stop meeting ‘market’ rent with benefits. Higher levies on empty properties.

All of these things would vastly improve the housing market. Don’t hate the player, change the game.

@lupad some of the unprofitable-Ness comes from cash flow. It is profitable in the sense of house appreciates in value but on a monthly basis it doesn't make loads of cash.

So you see nothing wrong with the global 1% owning so much of the worlds wealth? I do.

Wealth is not a zero-sum game, some people having more does not necessarily mean other people having less. Solutions to the "problem" of rich people having too much money can easily make them poorer without making poor people any better off. There is a simple statistical argument that poor people get better off in terms of absolute wealth as inequality gets higher. (But I suppose there is an counter-argument that may not make them happier. Having richer peers makes people unhappy. Maybe a simpler solution to this is for people to group themselves in areas so they only ever have to deal with others of similar wealth... )

And it’s always ‘oh it’s brilliant we’ve paid that mortgage off and are making such and such per month renting out..we’re now moving to a much larger house in a much nicer area’ as if that’s something to be proud of?!

Do you actually know any landlords?

This really isnt how it works. Any income received over and above what repays mortgage interest, is taxable. Most landlords by nature are better off so are on higher rate tax, so lose 40% of the income. Add in the fact that you have to tie up a lot of money in a property to get a BTL mortgage, and BTL mortgages tend to be higher interest rates than normal ones. This can make it quite hard to actually repay the capital on a buy to let mortgage. It's why lots of them are interest only.

@Bingbangbongbash no I said a lot of posters who say they struggle to make a profit are being disingenuous as they are hoping for the gain later. I said if profit & effort was a concern S&S may be a better option for some.

Let’s also remember that LL are paying a lot more tax than homeowners. An extra 3% on SDLT, tax on rent income (against which only limited expenses are allowed to be set), capital gains when they do sell.

That’s another area the government could step in to encourage them to sell - capital gains tax. It’s at a rate now that plenty of landlords don’t want to sell. Is it fair they shouldn’t be taxed on a windfall from property prices rising? Of course not. But if the aim is to get more stock on the market to lower the prices for those struggling to buy, perhaps it’s an avenue to explore.

09:03DeepaBeesKit

Yes I pay tax on the income

However, how many people are LL & don't pay tax ?

I would not sleep if I didn't pay my tax

@RandomLondoner it's complex but I don't think it's a good thing so few have so much & social mobility going backwards is not a good thing.

Is it fair they shouldn’t be taxed on a windfall from property prices rising?

It's not only property that is liable for CGT

@lupad

You didn’t, you made a dusty remark about it being surprising so many keep it when they make so little profit, after numerous pages where only rental income was mentioned.

I do agree, however, that to suggest rental income is the only avenue of profit is disingenuous.

So you agree with me 👍🏼