There should be an upper limit on rental prices

[HereLiveIAmNotACat]

Am I the only one that thinks the property investment industry is horrendous and shows how awful, greedy and selfish mankind can be? Surely there should be laws around this? Or caps on the maximum profit a homeowner can make per month relative to any mortgage on the property?
How can it be right that rental prices are ludicrously above mortgage prices purely for the homeowners to benefit from someone else paying off their mortgage and make a pretty penny on top.. then moving on to their third, fourth houses etc..meanwhile renters are stuck forking up more than they can afford with little chance of ever making it onto the property ladder due to the impossibility of saving up whilst paying rent.
Unless you were fortunate enough to have a property in the 80s before inflation/money from family you’re screwed really.
Just means less and less rental properties being available. The rich getting richer the poor getting poorer. And it’s always ‘oh it’s brilliant we’ve paid that mortgage off and are making such and such per month renting out..we’re now moving to a much larger house in a much nicer area’ as if that’s something to be proud of?!

(Yes- bitter renter here)

By undesirable, I mean those that landlords typically don’t want to lend to.

Lend = Rent!

I don’t understand all the people who say it’s so stressful being a landlord, they make no money, they’re on call 24/7. Why are you doing it? There’s a benefit to you somewhere or you simply wouldn’t.

@saveourtrees

I don't understand why, instead of building more social housing, why doesn't the council buy back housing? surely developers could buy old property and do it up for council tenants?

That’s a good idea but councils are limited in how much they can invest in property.

We are getting deeper and deeper into a crisis of too scarce and unaffordable housing for renters.
Something has to happen fast, unless we want to see children living on the streets.

[quote 3cats4poniesandababy]@skodadoda bit comment you were replying to but if landlords start to make a loss every month they will either sell, or that may keep the property as a holiday let or air bnb type place or leave it empty. Why? If they view property/ bricks and mortar as something they want as an investment. It may cost them less than losing money on a tenant to have it empty.[/quote]
When my son’s property had been empty for a while the City council offered to find a tenant. This was through the Empty Dwellings Management legislation. He took the offer.

One thing I would support is if landlords were only allowed to buy higher end properties (threshold would differ based on property type and area)

For example, landlords can only buy
in London- Flats above £475k, houses above £750k.
in SE: Flats above £325k, houses above £550k
in North: Flats above £200k, houses above £300k.

They can adjust the thresholds based on average property prices in the area every year.

This should be quite simple to administer. Of course, if they subsequently rent out the property after living in it, that is fine as long as they live in it for minimum 5 years. If not, they are liable to 40% taxes on the income irrespective of their own income.

This would mean the cheaper houses are there for renters to buy. Most renters can't afford the properties which are above the average price in any given area anyway so the fact that a landlord is buying a flat in Primrose Hill for £1 million is kinda irrelevant to them. But the fact that there are only 2 owner occupiers (me and a pensioner) in my block of flats (each valued at £400k in London) is a problem as I think most renters could afford to buy them. And I wouldn't even mind that the value of my property goes down as hopefully landlords would be dissuaded from investing in BTL so the cheaper terraces in my area would correspondingly go down in value (and I would just buy that instead of the 3 bed flat I was planning to buy). Or perhaps the landlords shouldn't be allowed to buy the cheaper 3 bed flats too, but that may make the thresholds too complicated!

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry passive income in retirement - easier to buy a BTL when you are 35 as opposed to 65. Difficult to sell London flats at the price they want (so holding out- thats what the agent told me when I tried to bargain down the price of a 4 bed flat recently vacated by an old lady- they would just rent it out rather than sell). Moving away for work - may move back again and not want the cost of buying all over again.

I am thinking of buying the flat next door for more living space rather than upgrading to a house as there is the option of renting it out in old age to supplement a pension.

A big reason why BTL is so popular is because a lot people in the UK don't have a decent pension and you can be a landlord at any age. my dad is a landlord (he lives in another country) and he says he will do it till he is 90. But of course easier to get a mortgage when you are younger as opposed to older!

So can’t be that stressful or difficult if your dad is planning on doing it when he is 90.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I don’t understand all the people who say it’s so stressful being a landlord, they make no money, they’re on call 24/7. Why are you doing it? There’s a benefit to you somewhere or you simply wouldn’t.

I’ve done it three times, it can be stressful, but we had an agent into manage it after the first time, the reality is tenants need to be vetted, they can refuse to leave, damage the property, and repairs need to be carried out speedily.

Yes there is profit in it, and many do it because they don’t want to sell for whatever reason, which is why we did it.

We had one tennant who when she moved out I’d seen nothing like it, she’d let her cats piss everywhere and we even found full dirty nappies in the loft. It was not some form of revenge or spite thing, It was a mental health issue, I was so bad We all had to keep leaving when trying to clean it, as our eyes were stinging so much and we kept retching.

We had not been doing regular checks, which was our fault, she seemed lovely, was a nurse, but she didn’t like the inspections, so as we were renting to her privately after a few months we didn’t do any inspections and let her be, fully trusting her. It was a terrible mistake.

A friend rented out her small property when she moved in with a partner, one tenant trashed the place on leaving, as in they spray painted the walls, smashed the furniture, smashed the kitchen cupboards, it was shocking and costs absolute thousands and took months to repair.

Not everyone does it as a buy to let, many do it due to personal circumstances, and tennants can only be vetted so far. People can seem lovely and live in shocking conditions.

@Accidentgirlfriend

Here a 3 bed house used to be £525 / £550 pm now you can’t get even the roughest of houses for less than £750 some are £900 pm which is a ridiculous amount of money . 3 bed houses on a nice estate £1200 ! That’s more than I earn a month add on deposits and fees and the prices are just shocking . We need to move so I can have my children living with me but we are stuck in a one bed flat because we can’t afford the rent ! I don’t know how people who are claiming benefits are getting on finding properties because we both work and can’t afford to save for deposit and fees so I feel for people who don’t work . No wonder there are so many people on the social housing lists .

A studio flat here will set you back over £700 a month.

It's obscene.

For example, landlords can only buy, in London- Flats above £475k, houses above £750k.in SE: Flats above £325k, houses above £550k
in North: Flats above £200k, houses above £300k.

All this will serve to do is make rental properties only available at th higher end making them out of reach for many people, and result in illegal over crowding in properties, removing cheaper rentals from the market will not drive house prices down, it won’t make social housing magically appear, it will just make people homeless.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

Rent not only has to cover mortgage but insurance, agents fee if managed by an agent, maintenence.

Err no- rent covers the market rate or thereabouts of the property. The mortgage, insurance, agents fees and maintenance are the landlords costs. The rent does not have to cover them.

I don't understand this logic. When you buy from Marks & Spencer's the cost of their goods builds in the costs of the store, keeping the lights on, distribution costs etc etc

Why would you expect to pay rent that does not take into account the costs of actually providing that space for you to live in??

Late to the thread and not read all of it.

Every society that has aspirations to longevity limits greed. I have no idea where this idea that greed of the wealthiest is good for us all, or that it gives everyone a fair chance came from. I also have no idea where the idea came from that we should all shut up and smile about it came from, although I have watched it grow since buy-to-lets started in the late 90s. Britain is now right back to being an oligarchic empire where your birth origin and sex dictates your life opportunities, yet feels the need to constantly lie to us all that things are otherwise.

Every week there is a thread about evil LLs

I've just worked 80+ hours this week
I have private pensions
I have property
No debt
I pay my taxes

I'm not apologising for anything

@ParsleySageRosemary

Late to the thread and not read all of it.

Every society that has aspirations to longevity limits greed. I have no idea where this idea that greed of the wealthiest is good for us all, or that it gives everyone a fair chance came from. I also have no idea where the idea came from that we should all shut up and smile about it came from, although I have watched it grow since buy-to-lets started in the late 90s. Britain is now right back to being an oligarchic empire where your birth origin and sex dictates your life opportunities, yet feels the need to constantly lie to us all that things are otherwise.

What a load of nonsense. The UK has never been an "oligarchic empire". And who, exactly is "ly[ing] to us"? What is birth origin?

I am with you OP! I have always rented as haven't been in a financial situation that enabled me to get a mortgage. Did not bother me years ago as I thought housing associations were set up for people like me, which they were originally but now they have taken on the role of social housing provider only.
I get bitter when I am in single-glazed shabby properties which I know have been owned for a long time by the landlord (from conversations with neighbours who know them) so I know the mortgage is either tiny or paid off, yet the rent is increased regularly without any maintenance or improvements on the property.
I put blame on the government; when 'right to buy' came in, the councils were supposed to replace the housing stock but didn't, and that has been a major driver in this situation.
I also get very p* off at programmes like Homes Under the Hammer, where they recommend multiple improvements to a property to sell it, then say 'if you are going to rent it give it a lick of paint and you are good to go'. Like we are cash cows.
I don't mind the profit aspect for landlords, it's the lack of maintenance that gets to me most.

The UK has never been an "oligarchic empire".

Well that's your credibility gone right there then.

@5SoulSeeker

Every week there is a thread about evil LLs

I've just worked 80+ hours this week
I have private pensions
I have property
No debt
I pay my taxes

I'm not apologising for anything

Perfect. More of these type of people is what we need in society.

Genuine hard working folk.

@Bluntness100 would make it cheaper for the state to buy the lower end properties and rent it out to social tenants.

I would prefer it if they built the social housing themselves, but this would be a quick fix solution to encourage the government/FTB to own more of the lower end housing stock.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry Most people in the UK do it as a side hustle. So it is time consuming as a side hustle. Its my dad's full time job. He only buys commercial property though, he has 13 office units, a pub and a restaurant. In my home country, 85% of housing is owner occupied government housing (can only be sold to singapore citizens below the equivalent of £70k income threshold as a new build; ultimate freeholder is the government who is responsible for all updating and maintenance) and landlords are not allowed to buy this (though ex owner occupiers of these flats can rent it out if they have lived there for a minimum of 5 years). They can only buy private condos, private houses or commercial properties.

In singapore as a result, there is no resentment of landlords. They only own the higher end properties which they tend to rent out to expats, there is also 92% home ownership.

We worked and saved hard to buy our house a couple of years ago. It’s a detached 5 bed in a nice area. Before that we rented flats and moved around the country so DH could keep getting promoted; so saying it’s impossible for people these days to buy isn’t true. Wise decisions re career, savings and planning ahead go a long way towards getting on the property ladder, it’s not pure luck. Most of our friends own their houses and bought recently. We also had DC later so we’d be settled by the time DC started school.

Also many landlords rent their properties as a career, for some it’s their only source of income. So what if they made savvy decisions in the 80s and now have a profile of rentals? Like any business, some people take a risk and get successful, others don’t. They should be free to price their properties at competitive rates, especially if they’ve put a lot of time and hard work into making them lovely homes, eg fitting new kitchens and bathrooms, new flooring, modern perks.

Perfect. More of these type of people is what we need in society.

Genuine hard working folk.

I can't tell how ironic that is supposed to be or how much of the background you're glossing over. Genuine hard working folk are sick of watching their hard work used to pay for someone else's properties. Genuine hard working folk are noticing that the more they work, the more everybody else but them are benefitting. And so they stop, because a slave is not something that anyone has ever aspired to be.

[quote Kathers92]@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry have you not heard the term “accidental Landlord?” It applies to people who at the time of buying a property did not intend to rent it out. Which would be me.[/quote]
You still chose to hang on to the property and rent it out, so that's not an accident imo.

It's a choice.

Totally agree OP.