Neighbour seems to think he has the right to jump our fence

[Twatforaneighbour]

We moved in about 3 years ago and put up a fence on top of an existing low height wall (which we own) across the front of our front garden which has a footpath the other side. We got planning to do this.

One of our neighbours had an issue with this, because his adult son (early 20s) liked to walk across our front garden and hop over our wall to save him from walking around. He put in a complaint when we went for planning saying that if the fence went up, we would need to make it safe as his son would be climbing over! The council made no comment on this.

This has made it inconvenient for him as it adds 5 mins walking time to walk down the road and up the public footpath. Since the fence went up, we clarified with the neighbour (the dad) that this was our property and our fence/wall, to make 100% sure there was no misunderstanding with who owns what, which he agreed.

We have now got video from our ring doorbell of "someone" walking across our garden and jumping the fence. It is unlikely to be anyone else as we are at the end if a small road.

What would you do? Trespassing is not a criminal offence. So far we cannot for sure identify the person as it was at night and not a great image.

They obviously see no issue with doing it so speaking to them wont help, Considered anti climb spikes but have seen you can be liable if trespasser gets injured on your property.
WIBU to get spikes if I put a warning with it?
Any suggestions? If he keeps doing it, it will end in damage to the fence and probably us paying for it

@Billben

You may not feel this is right, and I kinda get this, but they have just as much right to a life as you do

What an idiotic comment 😂 So we should just let people get on with whatever they want to do, however wrong, because they have a right to life 😂

I think that comment was probably supposed to go on the killing grey squirrels thread.

^Cattenberg

I was on your side until I read that it takes the neighbour an extra five minutes to walk round. That adds up to a lot of wasted time. I’m not surprised he jumps the fence when he thinks you’re not looking^

Christ. Far be it for anyone young and able-bodied to have to walk for an extra few minutes.

Imagine if you applied that to every day life, always walking the most direct route, no matter what obstacle was in the way. I mean, from my house it would probably be quicker to walk diagonally straight across the road and through neighbours' gardens to reach the main road instead of turning left and going down the footpath. But you just don't.

I second pyracantha. You can train the branches sideways and up and prune it back if it grows too far into the garden. It has very nice white flowers in spring which the bees love and attractive berries in autumn. You can get yellow orange or red varieties. The thorns are vicious.

You would be able to get fairly mature specimens in any garden centre.
Holly is also very attractive if you get the variegated leaf varieties but it’s slower growing than pyracantha.
Berberis is also nice and you can get some with attractively coloured foliage.
You will also need to ensure that any plants are mulched with organic matter to encourage good growth. Horse manure can be good for this.

@mistlethrush has got it, point 2, two lengths of wire stretched along the top, isn't dangerous, complies with height restrictions, least amount of hassle.

Be very careful about following the advice to put spikes/anti-climbing paint/thorn bushes etc. on your property to dissuade him. If he were to injure himself you could find youself in trouble because (believe it or not) you have to take the safety of trespassers into account. He would be able to demonstrate that he has been using the route for a while by referring to the planning objection. You can get round this risk to an extent by having clear warning signs and by writing to them warning them of the extra danger they will face if they continue to trespass.

I think writing to the trespassing person, recorded delivery, warning of the "necessary measures being taken due to repeated incursions" etc. If questioned, you can cite filmed evidence.
I'm impressed with your restraint, to date.

I don't think spiky plants are risky liability wise - most hedging plants are spiky and the police recommend thorny varieties for just this purpose as quoted upthread? I mean, I tend to assume hedges will be thorny rather than won't be.

What about a rose border? Some reach 6 foot once fully established. Having caught myself and my clothes on mine many a time, they would certainly deter me from climbing over.

I’d a) increase the height of the wall/fence, and put anti-climb paint in the top edge - you do need to put a warning sign up about the anti-climb paint.

And that makes it fine to disregard someone else’s private property and boundary ?!

I would be pissed, this is a 20 year old that should no better. Love the idea of motion splinkers but you'll have to use the back door or you, your friends, family and post man will get wet. Their is some lovely looking Holly bushes and other thorny bushes that flower and would be glad to prick him. You can order them in differant sizes for instant affact. Hope you get it delt with soon.

@BewareTheBeardedDragon

I don't think spiky plants are risky liability wise - most hedging plants are spiky and the police recommend thorny varieties for just this purpose as quoted upthread? I mean, I tend to assume hedges will be thorny rather than won't be.

I agree - and the spikes are often visible as well and often hurt but don't really harm.

I quite like pyracantha and there are some lovely holly bushes out there.

www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/grow-plants/pyracantha-to-grow/

It's almost worth doing the manure trench just for kicks!! If you do, make sure you have a camera set up to record it.

Ah, mumsnet at it's best: "but ... you do things differently to me! You are therefore Bad & Wrong! You must do things the same way as me!"

Yes I am serious. The previous owners presumably had no problem with it.
The previous owners no longer live there. OP does. She has a problem with it. WTF has the previous owner's decision have to do with her own?

Where I live, the postman often cuts across front gardens to get to neighbouring properties and no one gives a fig. And doing this saves him far less than five minutes

That's nice @Cattenberg.
Where OP lives, she doesn't want her neighbour cutting across her garden. She gives a fig. It's her fig, & whatever you choose to do with your fig has nothing to do with her decision.

I was thinking maybe you were BU as we had neighbours that let everyone walk in our cul de sac through their garden to get to the shops to make it quicker and they were lovely and nonone took the piss. But after seeing your diagram this CF can just jump his own fence or get a gate put in. I'd install motion detector lights and spiky plants.

Where I live, the postman often cuts across front gardens to get to neighbouring properties and no one gives a fig. And doing this saves him far less than five minutes

We put up a fence to stop the postman and other delivery people cutting across our lawn. It was OK in the summer but made a mess in winter and as we are end terrace they then walked mud down our path.

@BanditoShipman

He could solve it by putting a gate in his back fence, I think from the diagram?

this

Being on someone else's property without their permission is trespassing and not a criminal offence. You need to try to catch him in the act and tell him there and then that he is not allowed on your property. If you aren't around to catch him, you can tell him that you know he has been on your property and is not welcome and not to do this again. Best to keep some record/evidence of this - recording / witness / send an email / solicitor's letter. If he returns to your property after you have told him to leave and not return, it could then be considered harassment. You could tell him this and that if you see him again (and you are allowed to film on your property) he will be reported to the police. He may not believe you and you may end up having to report him and they may actually have to visit and have a quiet word with him. He could be causing (criminal) damage to your fence should he fail to jump it properly.

The police advise to plant naturally spikey plants, it's not something that can be litigated against in civil court as its natural growth that NDN son would be choosing to climb, not a man made hazard.

OP was worried about bush taking up all her garden but pyrancantha wouldn't- you train it to grow against/trail the new fence with wires - trim it to keep it thin not bushy abs it's called Firethorn for good reason!! It WILL stop NDN climbing OPs fence pretty sharpish & there's no need for OP to add in any other risky measure like cat spikes anti vandal paint etc

The wires you train it against will be about 4 horizontal ones along whole edge of the fence and you'll probably need ?2 plants feel free to put manure fertiliser at least 0.5m depth and other plants along the whole of your side of the fence. NDN will be trailing that through his parents house and leave you lively footprints to photo!

So if NDN son damages the wire or plants in meantime whilst it is growing, the police can be called as it will be criminal damage. He can be reported - Get a better cctv with motion triggered lights so you have him caught in the act of damaging it.

It's even more ridiculous after seeing the diagram, he needs to add a gate/opening to this own fence for his son to access. Surely he could get one of those half stable door type gates above the wall?

Can you plant Pyracantha, the one with the thorns? Also cut the top of the fence planks, so every fourth one has a point?

@Wills

This sounds like autism. That’s not to say its forgivable, more that you’re not dealing with ‘neurotypicals’ and so need to consider their perspective and having done that come at it from an angle that ensure’s you defeat their perspective. I have 3 kids on the spectrum and 1 that has learnt too much from the others. So I’m not trying to say their behaviour is acceptable - it isn’t, but unless you wish to go down the route of police (and they wont be keen to get involved) then you need to try and understand their perspective and change their behaviour based on that knowledge. I wholeheartedly agree with whoever suggested v. Spikey bushes. You’re not dealing with neuro-typicals! So you’re going to have to think a) outside the box and b) deal with inconveniences such as growing spikey bushes or putting up signs with anti-vandal paint. Etc. You may not feel this is right, and I kinda get this, but they have just as much right to a life as you do - however to persuade them not to walk across your garden you’ll need to go to greater lengths than if you were dealing with a typical person.

To those who feel I’ve been anti non-neurotypicals trust me I’m not, but having 3 of them (and I probably have a brother who isn’t and defo my husband and at least 2 of his brothers) I’m learning that they have a massive amount to contribute to society, but when they’re in a pattern that they don’t believe they should change they’re bloody stubborn and hard work. So whilst I feel for the OP, simply getting a lot of sympathy on here isn’t going to change their behaviour. She needs to look at how to change their behaviour and understand that the son is not likely to be neurotypical. Armed with that info she needs to see that simply telling father/son that they’re being unreasonable wont actually change their behaviour. Good luck op and if you’d like further advice PM me. But be assured I’m bowled over by my incredible ASD kids and what they can give. The father is at fault - but, who knows, he could be ASD too. Good luck.x

Can people stop diagnosing people they’ve never even met? Most of the time, they’re most likely to just be a knob head.

My cousin had a similar problem with kids 'cutting the corner' by hopping her fence to the local schoolyard.

She planted a couple of mature Nellie Stevens holly in the corner then started 'trimming them up' from the bottom so only the top part was thick and very prickly. As it grew she trimmed it up higher until the top bushy part was over the top of the fence, almost like a sort of modified espalier, but with the top 'bushier'. Then she 'underplanted' flowers in the cleared area underneath. Trimming it up meant that she didn't lose as much space in her garden and the kids could no longer use her fence to get to the schoolyard.

I don't know if you can grow Nellie Stevens in the UK, but here they can grow up to 2-3 ft per year. Fast growing, but high maintenance to keep them cut back.

Is it too early/overkill to pre-empt things by getting a solicitor's letter? If you have on record that you've asked him not to keep doing it, and warned that it may lead to criminal damage, if/when it DOES happen you might be on firmer legal ground if you have that and your doorbell footage of it being him.

Otherwise, cat spikes and big spiny plants.

Google “mahonia”, evilly spikey plant, great winter colour.