to ask you to tell me about 'special' schools

[bettys9thleg]

This is inspired by a thread yesterday which was taken down. I have a dd who has additional needs. She's in nursery at the moment but there have been some suggestions she might need to go to school in a 'special' school next year (is that even the right term? My apologies if it's not it's what people have said to me so far from the council/ school).

I am really torn I've written in my EHCP family conversation form I'd like her in mainstream with help but that thread yesterday gave me doubts. Anyone with experience what are special schools are like? Are all children taught 1:1? Or is it just smaller class sizes? Are there still opportunities for clubs and things? What difference is there in the amount of GCSEs people get (I know that's far off). Any info would be gratefully received.

Depends on the child’s needs. Some will be 1-1 some even 2 adults to 1 child. Class size of 8 or 9. Teacher and 4 TAs. Behaviour plans that every knows. Days are structured, kids are taught independence, social skills so they can thrive after that leave. Whether a special school or a unit in mainstream or mainstream is best for your child its whatever setting will help them thrive that’s important

@Tal45 and @cherrypie66 if you have both worked in special schools and feel strongly it should be avoided, I’m curious what you would actually do if your child had moderate/severe learning difficulties? What’s the good option when mainstream can’t cope if it isn’t special school? Also what put you off the special schools where you worked so strongly? Thanks!

@cherrypie66

I work in a special school and my advice to you would be if it is possible to keep in mainstream with support then do that without a doubt

Why do you say that @cherrypie66?

Our DD goes to a mainstream private. When we picked it we didn't know about her SEN, however the small classes, two full afternoons of sport and competent SENCO have served her well. We have organised therapies outside of school and she gets a one to one with the SENCO each week. She has made a good group of friends and the other DC and their parents are generally kind (I had to remove her from a birthday party recently, a paintball type thing, as she couldn't deal with the noise and special clothes). The teachers are understanding over the struggles with have with homework.

The school is keen on music too, which is something else that she's reasonably good at and which I believe helps her.

I'm keeping an open mind about secondary as I now realise that being with kind inclusive people is way more important than the specific qualifications.

Most people have spoken about dc with academic or emotional SEN. I'd be interested to hear from those whose dc have physical disabilities.

@sunnyandshare

Most people have spoken about dc with academic or emotional SEN. I'd be interested to hear from those whose dc have physical disabilities.

Do you mean children only with physical disabilities and no cognitive or learning disability?

Yes you just contact the school and ask to speak with the senco / to visit - as you would with a mainstream you were interested in.

I think many start their child off on mainstream and then move to special school after a few years when it becomes clear mainstream isn’t working. That’s what we did. My child now goes to an independent special school for children who have specific learning difficulties like dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. Some like my child are also autistic/have adhd.

We had to go to tribunal and it’s all funded by the LA.

My child also has a physical disability.

They do GCSEs, though not a huge range of subjects. Small classes, salt and OT integrated into the school and a big focus on self confidence.

We are really happy we made the move. For my child it’s been a move from feeling always behind, overwhelmed, and the odd one out in mainstream to being accepted and included and feeling like a success. Being seen and understood and appreciated at last.

Yes snarky I mean where mainstream was an option because there were no significant learning difficulties but they have a significant physical disability. In ds' primary school for example there was a boy who was a wheelchair user (the only one in the school) and I often wondered how he navigated very 'physical' activities that most likely would have been impossible for him. Eg from about Y2 upwards all of the birthday parties were a physical activity, such as high ropes, play centre, play bus etc that would not be wheelchair accessible. I often wondered (and this is purely speculation on my part) if he would have been better off in a SS that catered for those with physical disabilities as then he wouldn't be othered or left out.

My DS(18) has Down syndrome. He went to a mainstream primary with a fabulous 1:1 and got on well. For secondary we chose a MLD (Moderate learning disability) special school. His school operates very much like a typical secondary only on a smaller size, smaller class sizes and learning tailored to the right level. His classes are generally between 5-15 children with 2+ adults. He has lots of entry level qualifications but no GCSE’s. A few children did get some GCSE’s. The school also has a unit for children with autism. The sixth form is all about life skills.

Do your own investigation. If you feel mainstream is right for your daughter then it’s your right to choose a mainstream school.

@sunnyandshare

Yes snarky I mean where mainstream was an option because there were no significant learning difficulties but they have a significant physical disability. In ds' primary school for example there was a boy who was a wheelchair user (the only one in the school) and I often wondered how he navigated very 'physical' activities that most likely would have been impossible for him. Eg from about Y2 upwards all of the birthday parties were a physical activity, such as high ropes, play centre, play bus etc that would not be wheelchair accessible. I often wondered (and this is purely speculation on my part) if he would have been better off in a SS that catered for those with physical disabilities as then he wouldn't be othered or left out.

The examples you use are issues surrounding access within society, not school. Children with physical disabilities and no cognitive needs are often at a disadvantage in specialist provision as they may not have a peer group. It would be hoped that an academically capable child would be well included within mainstream where the facilities are suitable but the access to parties etc is wholly dependent on the inclusivity of peers and their families.

Thanks everyone some interesting comments. Really nice to hear the nice stories about children who have thrived (in special provision and mainstream). Gives me hope it's not all going to be bad news.

Can I ask this - has anyone gone for the special school option and felt it wasn't the right choice in the end?

DD1 (15) went to mainstream preschool - absolute disaster. They didn't know what they were doing with her and lacked consistency. She ran rings around them despite full time 1:1.

She then went to special primary school. They had 10 to a class with 4 staff. Extra curricular stuff was done during the school week. After school club was provided, but it meant parents needed to collect the children.

She moved to special secondary school. 12-14 to a class with 3/4 staff. It hasn't gone well for DD1, mainly due to her SEMH needs. Having said that, they have completely pulled out the stops once they'd realised it was all going so wrong, and DD1 has bespoke provision to meet her needs now. She is included in class, but has various provisions to help her when she can't cope. Again, extra curricular is dealt with in the school week, so no need for after school clubs in general, although they do have sports after school, too.

DD1 is at about year 1 level ability for maths and English in year 11. She can't read fluently.

Some children do Gateway awards and others go GCSEs, although lower grades.

Special schools tend to be set up for independence. For example, DD1's schools have been secure sites, with CCTV. This means that children can move about the school independently, because they can't get out and they can be located, so they are safe.

DD1 is going to a mainstream college, but they have a 'School of Personalised Learning' on site. They provide a bespoke curriculum for their learners with SEN. The courses they offer depend on the needs of their students.

DD1 is likely to do entry level 1/2 life skills courses initially, then she'll progress. She can potentially stay at college until she's 25, although most young people go to community projects once they're 19.

@sunnyandshare

Yes snarky I mean where mainstream was an option because there were no significant learning difficulties but they have a significant physical disability. In ds' primary school for example there was a boy who was a wheelchair user (the only one in the school) and I often wondered how he navigated very 'physical' activities that most likely would have been impossible for him. Eg from about Y2 upwards all of the birthday parties were a physical activity, such as high ropes, play centre, play bus etc that would not be wheelchair accessible. I often wondered (and this is purely speculation on my part) if he would have been better off in a SS that catered for those with physical disabilities as then he wouldn't be othered or left out.

I work in a special school with children with significant physical and cognitive disabilities I would say it would be a wholly inappropriate setting for someone with only a physical disability.

@bettys9thleg

Thanks everyone some interesting comments. Really nice to hear the nice stories about children who have thrived (in special provision and mainstream). Gives me hope it's not all going to be bad news.

Can I ask this - has anyone gone for the special school option and felt it wasn't the right choice in the end?

The thing to remember is it doesn’t have to be one or the other for their entire school career. I know many parents whose children had very happy and successful experiences in mainstream primary but decided that specialist school would be the better option for secondary.

There are many different types of special schools. I looked around different types when looking for a secondary school for DS, he didn’t fit into any of the LA schools as his learning wasn’t behind enough (he’s a bright kid) and he doesn’t have behavioural issues - the head of the SEMH school advised me against sending my son there.

Eventually, after failing at mainstream, we found an independent specialist which sounds very much like the one @cakeflower describes. DS is now thriving more than he has ever been, he has to travel a long way as it’s over an hour in a taxi but well worth it.

@cherrypie66

I work in a special school and my advice to you would be if it is possible to keep in mainstream with support then do that without a doubt

Interestingly, I would say the exact opposite to this.

I was the SEN school governor for 6 years. I have x2 SEN DC. If special school is being suggested, I would go for this option every time. No question.

It is SOOO hard to move a SEN child from mainstream to a special school. Sometimes impossible. And then there probably won't be any places, even if you can persuade the LA that she needs to be in a special school. Once you're in mainstream, to get a move to a special school requires everyone (all education and health professionals) to agree that they can't meet needs and that she must be moved. Unless she's failing very, very badly or is explosive and violent, it's hard to get all the professionals to agree a move is required. The system doesn't care whether your child is flourishing in mainstream - if she's scraping by, then that's enough reason not to move her.

In contrast, if your child develops and does well in special school, it's far easier to get a move into mainstream.

For many SEN children, the best they can hope for in mainstream is that they will somehow manage and that their sensory and cognitive needs can be squished into the boxes that a mainstream environment demands.

In my experience, children at a special school get far more opportunities to explore different types of learning. I've seen so many SEN kids crushed by mainstream, even when the school is doing its best. In contrast, I've seen lots of our SEN kids blossom in a supportive, quieter, nurturing environment of a special school.

As others have said, there are different types of special schools so it is important to find the one that's pitched at the right level for your child. But I would never, ever recommend putting a SEN child in a mainstream unless their difficulties were extremely mild and all agree that it is the right option. If experts are even mentioning a special school, I very much doubt that a mainstream will be the right place for your child.

@SpidersAreShitheads thank you that's very interesting. I am so worried about her being bullied and just feeling really down on herself in mainstream. That's interesting what you say about her moving from mainstream to special provision you're not the first to say that to me. I'm worried about my family conversation form now maybe I should have written something else.

Yes it sounds similar. All the kids at my child’s special school are bright (if not traditionally academic) and well behaved - but they are sensitive / vulnerable, and need specialist teaching for things like handwriting/typing/voice to text software. There are no LA options in the county for children like this (who have too many send to manage in mainstream but not ‘severe’ enough for the LA special schools), which is why we looked at the independent options.

There's different types of "special schools" and whether mainstream is appropriate for your dc will depend on her disability and ability to be taught alongside other children in a 30 person class setting.

Ta's in a mainstream classroom can be funded to work 1:1 but you also need to consider whether all her needs can be met eg they are not set up for nappy changing. Experts who know your child should be guiding you.

My dd (asd) has always been mainstream and I fought to keep her there when they wanted to transfer her to a special unit as she was a straight a student, she's at university now.

Dp's dd switch to special school during infants as she couldn't keep up with her peers, unfortunately she never progressed, regressed actually. Her medical needs meant she needs staff highly trained

I really wish I’d seen the thread yesterday, what was it about?

My DS (12) is in a specialist unit attached to a mainstream school. So far he loves it. At the moment has One period a day in mainstream (with a 1-1) and the rest in unit. Seems a good compromise so far

My nephew went to the local primary, he was bullied throughout, he wasn't allowed on school trips as he needed a one to one and the school wanted her to look after other children, he couldn't write properly as when he tried the other kids would laugh at him so he refused to do it, and he was made to sit with the receptionist if his one to one wasn't available (which was at least twice a week as she filled in for other teachers). It was only when he was taken out of the school that anyone took the complaints seriously. He is now at a specialist school and he is thriving. There are 7 pupils in his class, they do karate, singing, dancing, boxing and computer clubs after school, and they are given lessons on how to be an adult (how to pay bills, etc) mixed with English, Maths and Science instead of just normal lessons.

@deeedeee
It was started by a teacher who was stressed due to having 2 children with SEN in their class as it was disruptive. There were some quite unfortunate comments in it but some people have some interesting info on how they had found special school/ mainstream school.

I'm glad you've found a good compromise for your son that works for him .

It is as important to understand that a child can start in special education but not stay there, as well as it being an option if mainstream can't meet the needs. It's NOT necessarily some kind of fallback only.
I'm very sad to read of special ed. teachers not standing up for their type of education. For the right children there is nothing like it
DS2, diagnosed with autism aged 3 in the early 90 s (so with then significant difficulties), attended our Outstanding local MLD, with autism base. They worked brilliantly with him, encouraging his musical talents and together with local mainstream schools helped him advance academically. By 14 he was mainstream full time with significant TA time, now has a degree and a Master's and lives independently
OP, look at the schools not the label. Find out what links they have with mainstream schools,what their policy and practice is around joint working.

I work in a special needs secondary school and honestly it is so lovely and completely different to mainstream.
There is definitely less bullying and it’s more acceptable to be different (could be because there’s a lot less of them though.
The classes are smaller and you almost always have a teacher and TA.

However it is a special needs school so there will be other children there that have high needs and unfortunately sometimes they clash with other children - eg someone who can’t help screaming with a child who hates loud noises.
It is also not great academically and you can’t go as far as you could in mainstream.

Overall if my child had an EHCP plan I would definitely encourage them to go to a special needs school.
Lots of parents whose child only have physical disabilities will often let them come in for a couple days and go to mainstream for a couple days and decide themselves.