Does this count as an established pattern of contact?

[ArrangementsWorkDontChangeThem]

DD is 7. For 6 months she’s done an activity on a Saturday morning. On her dads weekend he picks her up from the place of the activity and takes her to his, parents can stay so I do handover while we’re watching her then I grab her, take her to her dad, give her a quick kiss and say I’ll see you tomorrow.

DD is much calmer going to contact, she doesn’t try and convince me she’s ill or doesn’t want to go, which means I’m much calmer and find handover much easier and I’m not worrying about her, she’s told school she likes dad coming to watch her. I’m also less hostile as he’s not on my territory so I’m more relaxed. It works for DD best though and that’s all that matters.

ExH lost an hours contact so I added this on to the end of the contact on Sunday as DD can cope with a slightly later bedtime now (so he brings her home at 5.30pm instead of 4.30pm).

The activity place are aware we do handover of contact there and have said as long as we’re not shouting and screaming at each other and upsetting the children and families there then they’re fine with it (we’ve never had an argument there or in public since we split, we occasionally exchange cross words via text or email but that’s as bad as it gets)

We split due to ExHs violence and control in 2017 and he took me to court for the CAO originally tried to get full residency without visitation for me but I was awarded full residency with ExH having visitation for 1 night EOW.

ExH has now sent me papers again stating he wants it to go back to him picking her up from my house, he wants the contact to start from when he picks her up from me (midday) and to carry on until Sunday 6pm when he’ll drop her home. He is saying that as it's only been a 6 month arrangement it doesn't class as established.

I don’t want that because I like how things are now, DD doesn’t want that, she is insistent she likes dad coming to watch her and then going in his car to his house to see grandma. It’s working and the only reason it would have to change is if DD stopped the activity – she loves the activity right now so not likely. I am happy to say if DD stops the activity we’ll change the arrangement.

AIBU to think the court will stick with the current arrangement as it's established?

I would say yes, it is an established contact pattern. All you can do is wait for the court to make a judgement. Contact is for the benefit of the child. So it should only be changed if there is a benefit to the child. It doesn’t sound like there is. Tbh it not sure what his motivation is? Why does he want it changed?

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I would say yes, it is an established contact pattern. All you can do is wait for the court to make a judgement. Contact is for the benefit of the child. So it should only be changed if there is a benefit to the child. It doesn’t sound like there is. Tbh it not sure what his motivation is? Why does he want it changed?

He's just put that he doesn't like the way contact is on the form.

* The activity place are aware we do handover of contact there and have said as long as we’re not shouting and screaming at each other and upsetting the children and families there then they’re fine with it*

How bizarre! Why did they even have reason to know? I do handover with my ex at an activity. No one’s business but ours

Is he proposing she still go to the activity?

“Established contact” can obviously change as the child grows up and circumstances change
It’s not written in stone

@Oftenithinkaboutit

Is he proposing she still go to the activity?

“Established contact” can obviously change as the child grows up and circumstances change
It’s not written in stone

He's wanting contact to start after the end of the activity (as it does now) so I assume he doesn't mind if she does it or doesn't do it.

@Oftenithinkaboutit

* The activity place are aware we do handover of contact there and have said as long as we’re not shouting and screaming at each other and upsetting the children and families there then they’re fine with it*

How bizarre! Why did they even have reason to know? I do handover with my ex at an activity. No one’s business but ours

I have anxiety @Oftenithinkaboutit so when I was signing her up I mentioned it and asked if they were ok with it, seems silly probably but it helped my anxiety to ask and they didn't seem phased so assume they're used to it.

It’s really not that big a change OP
Instead of picking up from centre
He picks up from yours
I’d pick my battles

* He's wanting contact to start after the end of the activity (as it does now) so I assume he doesn't mind if she does it or doesn't do it.*

Doesn’t that indicate he does want her to continue?

@Oftenithinkaboutit

It’s really not that big a change OP Instead of picking up from centre He picks up from yours I’d pick my battles

It is a big change in terms of the dynamic. It is neutral ground, a public place rather than at OPs home (her ex is violent) and the child not only wants it to happen there but actually wants her father to watch her participate in her activity. Unless his job has changed and he can’t do this pick up anymore then there is no good reason to change it.

@Oftenithinkaboutit

It’s really not that big a change OP Instead of picking up from centre He picks up from yours I’d pick my battles

It's a big change for DD, she has to come back to mine and she found going from my house to ExHs really difficult, she's been much easier to manage on contact days since starting the activity, it's like the activity distracts her from the transition and she doesn't have time to think about it, so gets on with it.

I'd guess that he has plans on Saturday mornings and doesn't want her until midday.

What is his reasoning for the change?

If there’s a history of violence and control then a neutral handover place in public should be the norm surely? He shouldn’t be coming to your house and I’d be concerned what the motives for wanting to change how contact is managed were

If there’s a history of violence and control then a neutral handover place in public should be the norm surely?
Yes, I'd want a neutral handover location in your circumstances.

Sounds like it’s best for dd for it to happen at the activity and that’s the angle I’d go from.

That she is happy so say goodbye to you and go off with her father from said activity where as prior when leaving from home she was upset at having to leave

But if you’re happy with the change of DD was to stop the activity
Presumably you’re ok with collection being at yours and not on neutral ground?

@Oftenithinkaboutit

But if you’re happy with the change of DD was to stop the activity Presumably you’re ok with collection being at yours and not on neutral ground?

No I'd personally prefer a neutral ground, I suggested it in court (DD was a toddler at the time) I suggested either the local supermarket cafe or a local park but ExH wouldn't agree to it and said no to every suggestion.

I think you need to clarify why he wants the change

If it’s simple “because I wanna it” then absolutely wouldn’t be acceptable.

Get the reason and go from there

If he’s just Put on the form because he wants it to change, then no chance

It’s not a big deal is it, do the activity then out for a hot chocolate and the dad picks her up from the cafe? That’s not too different than picking her up from the reception/ outside changing room etc. He can’t make you agree to him coming to yours.

Is the activity further from him in comparison to your house?

@GrettaGreen

Is the activity further from him in comparison to your house?

No it's about the same, say it's a triangle, I'm the bottom left corner, he's bottom right corner activity and the activity is the top of the triangle, I'm roughly half a mile from the activity, he's slightly over that from it but only by a few 100ms if that, and then he's about half a mile from me.

He always takes her to his mums anyway whose 5 miles away, sometimes they stay at his mums all weekend and sometimes he drives back to his, but they always go to his mums after the activity.