Just found out that puppy is partly a banned breed

[EvilGoldfish]

(Reposted from dog section as I didn’t get any replies yet and I’m really anxious!)

I know we should have done things properly to start with but my heart completely over ruled my head sad

We were on a waiting list for a Staffordshire bull terrier puppy, when my niece told me of a family she knew giving their 10 week old staffy female away as they couldn’t cope.

I went with full intentions of taking her to a local rescue as the details sounded dodgy (no microchip, no vaccinations, no contact details for who sold her to them) but I couldn’t bear the thought of her being picked duo as a bait dog. They had her in a tiny cat cage, no toys/bed and on adult butchers food. The first thing she did when they let her out was run up for a belly rub.

Obviously, she is completely adorable and I ended up taking her to the vets to be chipped, 1st vaccinations and to get checked over.

I know all puppy owners can say this but she is so responsive to positive training, loving and eager to please. She has only had two accidents in the four weeks we’ve had her, she sleeps at the foot of our bed and usually only needs to get up once in the night. Her little tail wags like crazy the second she sees anyone, including strangers and other dogs (dogs from a distance as her second vaccination is next week) but especially children. We are starting KC puppy scheme classes in a few weeks.

I feel like I have to predefend her as we have just received the wisdom panel DNA results. The breakdown is as follows (can’t post pictures yet?)

36% American Pitbull Terrier
21% Staffordshire Bull Terrier
18% American Bulldog
15% Rottweiler
3% Presa Canario
2% Boston Terrier
1% Bulldog
1% Dalmatian (?!)

I’m absolutely distraught. I’ve contacted the RSPCA (anonymously) for advice but wanted to know what others would do in my position? While I wait for the RSPCA response I wanted to try to figure out what my options are (google returned a LOT of conflicting advice).

Is she going to be taken from me when she gets bigger, even if she is a perfect family pet?

What are the chances of her suddenly turning into a rampaging beast, despite her being a very good natured puppy, and will be trained/socialised well?

These DNA tests are really inaccurate. Pup looks adorable!

I really hope the OP went before the hysterics began.

Actually the wisdom tests are not all rubbish . They were very good with one of my spanish rescues because I knew the background . Usually there is a family tree which shows you how far back each breed is . I think you are right to get advice from professionals though and I am sure with the correct training it will be a lovely dog .

I just also want to stay that DB had Staffies all his life- gorgoeus dogs so soppy and sweet that he trained well. As a puppy his American pit cross didn’t look any different it was just later in life it was clear he was a lot more powerful and less smart or gentle than his staff peers. It isn’t hysterical at all - look at the little boy in wales. It only takes once.

Those same DNA tests told me this 5kg dog was 75% border collie, 25% corgi.

I would take what they say with a huge pinch of salt.

How does the law define it banned breeds? Is is purebred only or does it need to be a certain percentage? I mean, surely a 1% isn’t a banned breed?

It doesn't define this way. It has a list of very specific meaurements (e.g. hock length vs total leg lenth) and the dog must fit within a number of them to be considered a banned dog breed type. It's not about the breed, it's about the type. Regardless of genetics, it's all about how the dog's actual body looks.

His dna is a third pit bull, mixed with 20% American bulldog. There’s a reason why pit bulls are banned and Staffies aren’t. His pit bull dna may become more apparent when he’s fully grown, as in he will be larger and bulkier. His temperament will be unpredictable.

Even if you keep him, he cannot be anywhere near children. He must wear a muzzle in public. Loads of people will say “my super large bulky Staffy cross is so docile and wouldn’t hurt a fly.” Any breed can turn, but I would rather be bitten by a small dog than a dog with a super strong jaw and an unpredictable temperament.

OP my bestest ever dog was a Pitt/staff cross. She was quite tall and blue/grey.

She was very easily trained.She was scared of next doors cat and let my eldest dd dress them up in outfits. They honestly were the most loving intelligent dog I have ever had and I am certain they new human language. My girl would take the sky card out of the box with her teeth if I was on the phone too long not giving her attention.

If I was talking them to the park I had to spell it out - in fact trips to the vet or to my nanas had to spelt out too

They were never any trouble. Never had a dog fight. Never pulled on the lead.

She eventually went to go and live with my elderly nana as I was working a lot and she would go there during the day to keep them both company. Then one day she just didn't cross the door when I went to collect her -the dirty sell out. And spent the rest of her days with my 80+ year old nan.

She got a bit over weight as my nan fed her liver patte on toast but she was very gentle with my nan and would sit under her legs by the chair. She died when she was 14 from leukaemia. My nan still has her ashes.

She was an awesome dog and I would have one again.

Whilst the DNA tests aren't exactly 'rubbish'...

The database info used is American, so the marker that shows up 'american pitbull terrier' is actually almost certainly showing up the genes for 'bull & terrier' that was the ancestor of the american pit bull terrier... and originated in the UK and is also behind our staffordshire bull terriers.

For the same reason, UK dogs will come back with markers for 'Rat Terrier' when we don't have Rat Terriers here.. but we do have parson russels, jack russels, etc.. who share the same ancestors as the american 'Rat Terriers'...

So no she isn't a pit bull.

However, if she grows up to look like defras guidelines on what a pitbull or ptbull x 'type' dog looks like you risk trouble and it makes no odds at what her genetics say or whether she's got paperwork going back centuries saying shes some other breed.

Be a responsible owner, keep documentation of insurance, training classes, training certificates, register at a vets etc etc, and she's as safe as any potentially 'type' looking dog can be. The only way to avoid the risk of someone claiming she is 'type'.. is not to own her unfortunately :(

I’ll go against the minority and say where there is even a 1% chance there is an unpredictable/aggressive dog breed I think a dog should be pts. It’s never worth the risk. I know people will be furious with me and there will be 101 “my dog is a softy” stories but… I don’t understand the appeal of any of these dogs. They only need to be aggressive ONCE.

Go against the majority I meant

@PinkMochi

His dna is a third pit bull, mixed with 20% American bulldog. There’s a reason why pit bulls are banned and Staffies aren’t. His pit bull dna may become more apparent when he’s fully grown, as in he will be larger and bulkier. His temperament will be unpredictable.

Even if you keep him, he cannot be anywhere near children. He must wear a muzzle in public. Loads of people will say “my super large bulky Staffy cross is so docile and wouldn’t hurt a fly.” Any breed can turn, but I would rather be bitten by a small dog than a dog with a super strong jaw and an unpredictable temperament.

Have you not read the part where someone did a DNA on a pedigree border collie and the test came back saying they didn't have any border collie in them? They're an absolute scam.

I’ll go against the minority and say where there is even a 1% chance there is an unpredictable/aggressive dog breed I think a dog should be pts. It’s never worth the risk. I know people will be furious with me and there will be 101 “my dog is a softy” stories but… I don’t understand the appeal of any of these dogs. They only need to be aggressive ONCE.

ANY dog can be unpredictable.

ANY dog only needs to be aggressive once.

@MoomaidAhoy

I’ll go against the minority and say where there is even a 1% chance there is an unpredictable/aggressive dog breed I think a dog should be pts. It’s never worth the risk. I know people will be furious with me and there will be 101 “my dog is a softy” stories but… I don’t understand the appeal of any of these dogs. They only need to be aggressive ONCE.

So all dogs then?

@KurtWilde whilst I'm not agreeing with the put the dog down sentiment, all dogs of course have the capacity for aggression but if you have a look at serious and fatal dog attacks in the UK, since records started being kept a couple of hundred years ago the vast majority of dogs responsible are bull-types (pitbull, staffs and American bulldogs mainly), rottweilers and alsatians.

They are not 100% accurate and very un-so if the parents are not pure breeds.

This seemed an interesting read.

www.mydogisarobot.com/how-accurate-is-wisdom-panel/

My mutt is a shar pei cross paterdale but he's huge and always gets mistaken for a rather expensive cane corso 🤷‍♀️.
People can and will speculate on what breed yours is but just keep saying lab cross staff to shut them up .
Pits are no more dangerous than any other dog it's all about how they are brought up and you sound very responsible so just enjoy your little pup.

@MoomaidAhoy

I’ll go against the minority and say where there is even a 1% chance there is an unpredictable/aggressive dog breed I think a dog should be pts. It’s never worth the risk. I know people will be furious with me and there will be 101 “my dog is a softy” stories but… I don’t understand the appeal of any of these dogs. They only need to be aggressive ONCE.

So you're saying every dog should be PTS then? Any dog can turn and be aggressive.

[quote MalbecandToast]@KurtWilde whilst I'm not agreeing with the put the dog down sentiment, all dogs of course have the capacity for aggression but if you have a look at serious and fatal dog attacks in the UK, since records started being kept a couple of hundred years ago the vast majority of dogs responsible are bull-types (pitbull, staffs and American bulldogs mainly), rottweilers and alsatians.[/quote]
You also have to look at their upbringing and training. Please show me a case where a healthy, well socialised and trained dog has bitten. I'll wait.

Please show me a case where a healthy, well socialised and trained dog has bitten. I'll wait

Technically, police dogs are healthy, well trained and socialised. They bite 😂

Our dog looks exactly like a Red Nose Pit Bull and I suspect she could have some ancestry or at least be a ‘plastic pit’ (bred to look like one), we’ve had her 10 years and she is a beautiful soul. Had no idea about Pit Bulls and banned breeds when we adopted her, her current owners were very strong on the fact she needed to go to a loving home and they vetted us thoroughly, apparently they had all kinds of unsavoury characters interested and they had turned a lot of people away. It all makes sense now. When I realised what we had potentially adopted (about a year later) I had mixed feelings, if someone said Pit Bull when we were looking there is no chance we would have entertained her but having owned our pup, I would have another in a heartbeat. We’ve had Police to the house twice, once for an attempted break in and another when some weirdo was messaging our daughter and we’ve never had a problem. (We suspect the scumbags in the break in did a runner when they saw the dog... the police gave her fusses) Of course like some people, some dogs can be bad eggs and we’ve never put our children or dog in a situation where something could happen. We would never leave any dog alone with children but the blanket breed legislation whilst I can understand the ‘prevention is cure approach’, I do think is unfair because so many innocent, well behaved dogs have been euthanised through no fault of their own. If you go on the Defra website, they should have a checklist of characteristics to check off to see if your dog falls under the ‘pit type’ which is a very broad spectrum. Give your pup a cuddle for me

@KurtWilde whilst I'm not agreeing with the put the dog down sentiment, all dogs of course have the capacity for aggression but if you have a look at serious and fatal dog attacks in the UK, since records started being kept a couple of hundred years ago the vast majority of dogs responsible are bull-types (pitbull, staffs and American bulldogs mainly), rottweilers and alsatians.

Of course they bloody are. No one gets mauled to death by a Westie, do they?

An attack by a larger, stronger dog is more likely to be serious or fatal than an attack by a small or medium breed.

No one is going to report being attacked by that fucking pug down the road from me because he can't reach above my ankles and has no chance of seriously injuring me. Yet he is much more aggressive than the two Rotties they have. They're soft as muck. Always wandering around unsupervised but that's another rant altogether.

People see them roaming around and nearly have a heart attack at the two massive Rottweilers but its the bloody pug you need to watch out for. I'd have it put down if it were mine, fucking thing is a liability.

Have you not read the part where someone did a DNA on a pedigree border collie and the test came back saying they didn't have any border collie in them? They're an absolute scam.

They are indeed. One of the consumer programs put them to the test a few years ago and sent a swab taken from a human with a picture of a dog, turns out the person the swab was taken from was the same breed as the dog in the picture; what are the chances of that.

If those test results are to be considered reliable which I’d be a smidge dubious of, your dog is nothing more than a good old fashioned Heinz 57! So tell people thats what she is and no one will be any the wiser, if you really feel the need to associate her with a breed shes a ‘staffie mix or cross’ same story for insurance. If you don’t tell people how will they ever know? Not sure about the American Pitbull Terrier showing as a breed but in the UK a Pitbull or Pitbull Terrier is not a breed, it is a mix of any breeds (usually bull breeds) that meet a specific set of criteria that cannot be determined until a dog is fully grown. Unless your dog looks like a specific banned breed such as a presa I wouldn’t worry. Even if your dog could be deemed ‘pitbull type’ in adulthood, provided she is well trained and doesn't cause problems its unlikely you’d ever get reported so just make sure her behaviour is exemplary which it sounds like it is and that you are taking training seriously. Even if she ever were to be typed by the police you can apply for an exemption, it would however mean being spayed (this is always highly recommended for health reasons anyway), always on lead and wearing a muzzle in public, and not able to be rehomed, not ideal but not the end of the world either if it comes to that or being put down. I think you are probably overthinking it though and taking to much stock in a potentially slightly inaccurate panel. Enjoy your beautiful Heinz puppy and worry about issues ‘when and if’ they arise.

worry about issues ‘when and if’ they arise.

Is that when and if the dog attacks a child... might be a bit late then.

This might interest you OP.

I think it was watchdog who did the experiment in the UK but it was a few years ago and I couldn't find it on YouTube. In this video the conclusion is that the test should be reasonably accurate in a pure bred dog but they are far less reliable in a dog of several mixed breeds.

I had a Labrador X staff, looked like a pit bull.

I wouldn’t be concerned about the DNA test, they are not that reliable.

My girl lived to 16 and was never questioned, but she was a very loving, kind and gentle dog so was never in a position for anyone to look into what breed she was .