To think TV licensing are complete bullies?

[dabbydeedoo]

I went online and said I didn't need a TV licence because I don't watch live TV (I don't). I then received a letter telling me someone would be round to check, and they could apply for a search warrant from the court if I didn't let them in.

Is it just me or is this absolutely ludicrous? We're in a pandemic and I have absolutely no intention of letting someone into my flat. And even if I did, what exactly are they going to do? I have a TV connected to my laptop that I use for watching streaming services and YouTube. Completely legal, but how on earth can they prove I don't watch TV on it?

It feels so bullying and scammy!

@DontBeCatty

I don’t get why people find the letters so ‘threatening’. If you know you don’t need a license then just ignore them. I don’t understand the outrage. 🤷🏻‍♀️ There are loads of people who don’t pay their tv licenses so it’s not surprising that the tv licence people want to catch them. It’s similar to seeing ‘shoplifters will be prosecuted’ signs in shops. I know I’m not a shoplifter so I just ignore them.

You don't see why intimidating letters telling you they can apply for warrant for a big burly bloke to enter the home you live in alone might be threatening?

If it was subscribing I’d not bother it’s crap I only watch Dr who Call the midwife now.

If they knock on your door either don't answer or shut the door in their face. They have no legal powers and work by trying to bully vulnerable people into thinking they have to pay.

imagine if the content creators produced what they are contracted to do, like non biased programming?

People on all sides of politics accuse the BBC of being biased. That would seem to indicate that it's getting it about right.

[quote dabbydeedoo]@LightDrizzle yes I do disagree. It's biased programming and I have zero interest in watching it. Just because you like it doesn't mean everyone else has to. I pay for content I want to watch, just like you do.[/quote]
The thing is, you also pay for content you don't want to watch with Sky, Prime etc, unless you can really claim that you love every single programme they produce. And you pay much more.

And you pay for a hell of a lot more with the commercial channels, with no element of choice at all, because the costs of advertising are added on to the goods you buy.

I don't think it's bullying and I've never had a problem with them until recently.

Several months after moving house I started receiving the threatening letters about court etc as there is 'no TV license at the address'. I've been paying it since the day we moved in so was very pissed off to receive these letters. I've ignored them and nothing has happened but I'm patiently waiting for the day they turn up so I can lose my shit at them.

It's madness.

TV licensing seems to be an area of this country where the foundational legal principal of 'innocent unless proven guilty' goes right out the window. I had letters from them recently, there's no "You don't have a license can you confirm if you need one or not" they go directly to accusing you of watching TV illegally and threatening to send their 'enforcement officers' around, like some sort of TV mafia.

It's absurd that in an era of many many alternatives to live broadcast television/the BBC they still feel so entitled to our money -- imagine if any other organisation just turned up at your house demanding you let their private goons in to search the place in order to prove your innocence of crimes they have no evidence or good reason to suspect you of, it's an utter violation of our rights to privacy and security in our homes and the presumption of innocence in our legal system.

@Platax so? That's my choice. They don't send me threatening letters about sending people round to enter my home if I choose not to subscribe to them. As it happens I don't subscribe to them - I use my partner's Netflix account.

Do you not think it's very entitled to bully people into paying for services they don't want?

@Namechangetimes100

What? The Mother f*ckers! I was told I needed one for Prime and Netflix which is literally all we watch. I couldn’t tell you the last time we put broadcast TV on or even tried to sign into I player…. Rage

No, that's rubbish. Did someone tell you that on the phone?

We deleted our iplayer login which probably helps.

Think of it as "no live TV allowed".

Imagine content creators wanting to be paid for their time and effort

Nobody's suggesting they shouldn't; if you use the service you pay for it, simple as that

But OP doesn't use it ...

They have to prove you guilty, you don't have to prove yourself innocent. They use bullying tactics like this because the only way they can prove you are watching TV without a licence is to catch you in the act or if you admit it.

If they turn up, don't let them in. Sure they can waste licence-payers' money getting a warrant, in which case you have to let them in. But unless you're watching live TV or using iPlayer at the time, they can't prove anything.

Remember you need a licence if you watch live streaming programmes. The TV Licensing website is deliberately vague about what this means. I understand if I watch a live stream of something that is also being broadcast I need a licence, but what if it's a live Youtube stream that is live on Youtube only and not a simulcast of a television channel? My interpretation is that it's not "live TV" therefore a licence isn't needed.

Presumably everything they issue letters, more people get a tv licence!

@HarrietsChariot

They have to prove you guilty, you don't have to prove yourself innocent. They use bullying tactics like this because the only way they can prove you are watching TV without a licence is to catch you in the act or if you admit it.

If they turn up, don't let them in. Sure they can waste licence-payers' money getting a warrant, in which case you have to let them in. But unless you're watching live TV or using iPlayer at the time, they can't prove anything.

Remember you need a licence if you watch live streaming programmes. The TV Licensing website is deliberately vague about what this means. I understand if I watch a live stream of something that is also being broadcast I need a licence, but what if it's a live Youtube stream that is live on Youtube only and not a simulcast of a television channel? My interpretation is that it's not "live TV" therefore a licence isn't needed.

I think it's incredible that they can even get a warrant. They're allowed to enter my home, in a pandemic, at a time when I'm limiting interactions with people, to check I don't watch TV?

How would they even check anyway? I have a TV. It was here when I moved in and it belongs to the landlord. That doesn't mean I watch live TV or am obliged to pay for a licence. I also have a separate larger TV I use for streaming Netflix, watching Youtube channels and also as a monitor for big work meetings. None of this means I have to pay for a licence.

@DontBeCatty

I don’t get why people find the letters so ‘threatening’. If you know you don’t need a license then just ignore them. I don’t understand the outrage. 🤷🏻‍♀️ There are loads of people who don’t pay their tv licenses so it’s not surprising that the tv licence people want to catch them. It’s similar to seeing ‘shoplifters will be prosecuted’ signs in shops. I know I’m not a shoplifter so I just ignore them.

Yeah but Tesco doesn't write to me threatening to come round and look in my fridge for stolen items that "they know I have". It's not the same and it's inexcusable that they act as if everyone is guilty. The tone is off.

I am sure if the checkout staff and security at shops continually accused you of shoplifting, you'd eventually feel it was unreasonable.

I think it's incredible that they can even get a warrant. They're allowed to enter my home, in a pandemic, at a time when I'm limiting interactions with people, to check I don't watch TV?

They'd never get a warrant from any Magistrate who actually did their job.

How would they even check anyway? I have a TV. It was here when I moved in and it belongs to the landlord. That doesn't mean I watch live TV or am obliged to pay for a licence. I also have a separate larger TV I use for streaming Netflix, watching Youtube channels and also as a monitor for big work meetings. None of this means I have to pay for a licence.

They mostly try to get in and then ask leading and or intimidating questions, tell lies and browbeat people to admit to stuff, whether they have done it or not. Sadly there are some poor and ill-informed people who are taken in by this.

I am not condoning people not having a licence who should do - but the tactics Crapita are always questionable at best.

My DSat uni has had the same OP. Made me really cross as the letter was unpleasant and threatening. He doesn't watch anything you need a licence for. It's outrageous that they treat you as guilty and need you to prove yourself innocent.

YANBU, technology is available for the BBC to simply stop people that don't pay from watching.

No need for these threat's.

Just ignore ignore ignore. Don’t contact them, don’t give them your name, don’t respond in any way, don’t even open the letters.

I’ve not had a license for about 8 years now over 2 addresses. Regular as clockwork I get a letter to the legal occupier containing escalating levels of threats. They also try shame techniques such as a big red band across the envelope saying ‘PAYMENT DUE IMMEDIATELY!’, presumably to frighten (usually older or vulnerable) people into paying so their postman or neighbours won’t think they are falling into arrears with household bills.

The cycle usually ends with a letter stating visibly on the envelope, ‘are you home on xx date? An inspector has been booked to visit your home’

They never have visited.

I take great enjoyment from popping the envelopes unopened every month straight into my recycling. So far I estimate I’ve cost them approx £50 in postage and stationary costs.

And for the obvious employee bleating about paying content creators… I have a Netflix, Prime, Disney+ and Spotify subscription. They actually produce decent unbiased content I enjoy watching!

I had one of these yesterday asking me if O would be on Dec2nd.
I wouldn’t answer the door anyway - is an entry system.
Just chucked the letter in the recycling.
I haven’t watched the BiasedBC for years anyway on any medium -only Amazon & Netflix on a laptop.

I can't believe this stupid TV licence is still allowed to exist. BBC is biased, pays ridiculous salaries to its presenters, and makes a fortune flogging its content around the world. If they moved to a simple pay per month subscription service at least, that would be better than their complicated - and entirely in their favour - payment system. Anyone who's ever tried to cancel and get a refund will know that they only refund for 'full quarter' or somesuch, which you have been forced to pay in advance, but mysteriously cannot get back. Bastards.

They send me letters all the time but I ignore them, people say they can’t do anything but I know 2 people who were taken to court over it

Just don't let them in ,don't engege ,don't open the door they have no powers ,and yes they send nasty letters ,but they are not worth the paper they are written on ,it's a ridiculous and antiquated system ,that just isn't workable in this day and age ,but the BBC are to stubborn to do anything about it.

@TurnUpTurnip

They send me letters all the time but I ignore them, people say they can’t do anything but I know 2 people who were taken to court over it

They will have been if they admitted not having a licence.

I think on both occasions they came into the property, I had a man come to mine once but I didn’t let him in and shut the door in his face, he did actually try to block me by sticking his foot in the door.

I'm still wondering if the posters being harrassed filled in the declaration form.