To think TV licensing are complete bullies?

[dabbydeedoo]

I went online and said I didn't need a TV licence because I don't watch live TV (I don't). I then received a letter telling me someone would be round to check, and they could apply for a search warrant from the court if I didn't let them in.

Is it just me or is this absolutely ludicrous? We're in a pandemic and I have absolutely no intention of letting someone into my flat. And even if I did, what exactly are they going to do? I have a TV connected to my laptop that I use for watching streaming services and YouTube. Completely legal, but how on earth can they prove I don't watch TV on it?

It feels so bullying and scammy!

@Royalbloo

CornucopiaTVLR they use land registry to find out about new addresses and the data is notoriously inaccurate.

They also have a big issue with people re-naming their home from "35" to, "Rose Cottage" and then have no way to tie the two together.

There is a charter in place which governs what they can and can't do and everyone understands it except the general public.

Does that make sense?

If they cannot tie up an address to a purchased licence then everything that falls between the cracks gets letters.

Okay, I understand that, although you haven't addressed my questions. Interesting about "the charter" - d'you mean that's kept secret from the Public, or the Public just don't seem that bothered?

To drill down a bit more...

• When the letters talk about "opening an investigation", what does that mean in practice, if anything?

• What's Mrs. Doubtfire like?

@Royalbloo

And, in answer to the question, "Why are they such bullies?"

It works - most people need a licence and will buy one after a few letters have been sent. It works.

Since when was it appropriate for a public body to bully people into doing what they want them to do?

I agree the tone is awful. My mum is 80 and so has recently started paying for her tv licence again. She forgot to renew it recently and within a month she had a letter from them threatening all sorts of things if she didn't get a tv licence at once. She was genuinely scared of going to prison. I tried to calm her own saying there is no way that they would prosecute an old lady for being slow to renew her licence but she was properly frightened.

They have a royal charter, here: www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/charter

An investigation can mean sending a van to your house. But they can only do so much - matching light emissions, and that's only if they can get close enough to your home to measure them.

I've not signed the official secrets act!

I'm not excusing their behaviour, just explaining how you can legally (if you don't need a licence) reduce the stress of them visiting, i.e. answering the original post

And they would definitely prosecute anyone they can prove is in violation of the charter, and they do. Otherwise there is no deterrent.

And you wouldn't go to prison for not paying for a TV Licence, anyone who goes to prison goes there due to non-payment of a court imposed fine.

(As you could for council tax or any other court-enforced fine)

@Royalbloo

They have a royal charter, here: www.bbc.com/aboutthebbc/governance/charter

An investigation can mean sending a van to your house. But they can only do so much - matching light emissions, and that's only if they can get close enough to your home to measure them.

I've not signed the official secrets act!

Yes - I have in fact perused The Charter. Doesn't say anything about TV Licensing or enforcement tho.

So, if you send out 3 million letters a month that all talk about "an investigation has been opened", and you have 300 field staff, how does that work exactly? At what stage do the numbers just not add up, and the claim becomes meaningless?

@Royalbloo

I used to work for them.

Declare WOIRA (the withdrawal of the implied right of access), then they can't legally knock on your door to check.

It's true!

Not quite

Implied right of access allows a person to go through an unlocked gate, walk up the private path to get to the door
If for example a townhouse has the door on the street then there is nothing that needs to be accessed to get to the door

If there is a gate, path etc then notifying withdrawn right of access stops the right to get nearer to knock on the door

CornucopiaTVLR it's, sort of, the law...

I haven't had a TV license in over ten years, luckily I live in the sticks now, so I don't have to deal with the capita arseholes. But before that, I used to have to deal with them turning acting like they're police rather than just sales people and being downright intimidating.
No I won't let you in my house to "check".

When they prove someone doesn't need one, or they declare WOIRA.

They will NOT knock on your door if you do.

They can't walk up to your house and knock on the door

Here

BeaucoupFish what is wrong with you? I've reported you, but are you genuinely ok? I'm just trying to help.

Genuinely hope you're ok?

@littlejalapeno

Imagine content creators wanting to be paid for their time and effort. How about you pay the licence for using the service and then they won’t have to waste everyone’s time chasing you?

Because I don't watch anything on the BBC and even if I did It's not worth the money. 7 quid a month for Netflix or £159 for a TV licence?? Easy choice.

BeaucoupFish are you just cross because I know more about a subject than you do? I don't understand why you're getting at me?

Aren't we all just here to help and support each other? If someone doesn't wish to do as I've suggested, that's fine. Just explaining what will happen if you do. That's all...

I don’t watch TV, pre children I had no need for a TV licence. I didn’t even have a DVD player etc, and this was before streaming.

A guy came round in winter after 8pm, I stupidly buzzed him up as I was waiting for a friend. He stepped right in as I opened the door and walked forward! It was horrible as a lone female.

He got quite embarrassed and lost his cocky March when he was standing in the middle of my studio flat which obviously wasn’t even set up with anywhere to face a screen, let alone a screen. He did have the grace to apologise.

@Royalbloo
No I am Not cross at all

But do you have a reply to @CornucopiaTVLR…

Okay, given that these might be my only question...

• When you work at BBC/TV Licensing do you get trained on the actual legal position of TV Licensing, or is there some kind of alternate reality induction process that you go through?

• Assuming the former, how does the situation arise where TVL sends so many millions of misleading letters of the kind that the OP is querying? What's the rationalisation there between reality and subterfuge

@Royalbloo

CornucopiaTVLR it's, sort of, the law...

In answer to which question?

The whole question of "law" & TVL gets very interesting, and is certainly beyond my capability to fully understand and bring to bear upon the BBC.

However, the basic principle AIUI, is that just because an offence exists, it doesn't mean that a public body can simply "decide" to enforce it, or invent an enforcement process and demand that the Public abide by it.

Article 8.2 of the HRA and other legal principles mean that Parliament has must have legislated that a public body must enforce, and also determined what kind of things the Public must do (and the penalties for not doing them).

None of that exists for TV Licensing, which is... a problem at every level.

Or in other words, if no one has to do anything for TV Licensing, why does it say/imply that they do?

TheViewFromTheCheapSeats I'm glad he apologised.

I've been out with the inspectors and there are drunk people, people on drugs, properly aggressive people looking for a fight, people thinking they carry cash - they get assaulted all the time. It's an awful job, from first hand experience. Really scary (I'm sure you were lovely). X

Sigh....I didn't say they have to do anything. I was answering the OP. Please bore off. Cheers!

@Royalbloo
It is a good question and as were an employee Your insight would be invaluable, and you actively invited questions