To ask whether I should refund this business £1000

[umwhyisthishappening]

I own a very small PR business and we recently took on a new client for £1000 a month for three months. I was thrilled.

We did all of the work they had asked for within one week, a social strategy, a press release and distribution, comments on their slogans which they asked for, and our graphic designer created their branding.

To be fair, they weren’t happy with the designs. We rectified this within two days and they said it was a vast improvement. I explained we are really trying to get a feel for what you are looking for and at 5am this morning created even more images which they were initially happy with.

Today I had to move a meeting with them because our social manager had an emergency with her child. They were not happy about this (we have always made their meetings over the past two weeks so this was a first) and now they have requested termination and a full refund.

We have a contract which states they are locked in for three months but they have said they were not happy with the pace of the work.

I feel we have done a lot of work for them and don’t know where I stand with a full refund.

Any advice please?

And OP, if you take any action that is in breach of the contract, they can sue you to include their court costs. So don’t be refusing a refund and so on solely based on IABU on Mumsnet opinion calling them chancers.....have a professional look at your contract and tell you what your contractual obligations, rights and legal remedies are.

@Lockheart

If you're running a business you really shouldn't be taking advice on this from AIBU. Ask a professional for help.

Oh come on. There are businesses of all sizes, not everyone can run to a solicitor for every little question. Besides, OP is asking what seems reasonable, not what is legal.

Small business owner here with a legal background.

Have they paid you anything? 😱
That’s your first concern. Did you ask for any money upfront or in account? What are your payment terms?

Get legal advice or at least check out Simply Docs. You a firm set of T&Cs for your business and a service level agreement (SLA). The SLA needs to include description of services provided, milestones, key contacts on both sides and how and when work will be reviewed, number of revisions without charge, and dispute resolution. Use this going forward for all work.

Stand your ground and if nothing else use this one as a learning curve. There are a lot of people out there hiding bad behaviour behind a business.

Good luck!

@Hont1986 it will become legal very quickly if OP gets it wrong. As she is self-employed, she needs to get her head around her legal and contractual obligations if she is to run a robust business and to do this she'll need a professional, not a load of strangers on the internet with dubious qualifications and intentions who have no idea of what's in the contract.

I know a company that tried to pull this. They brought in a huge regional firm and got them to put together a logo, branding, leaflets etc, even a radio ad. Then said they weren't going to go ahead.

Kept the proposal, then brought me on as a small similar (and cheaper) firm and instructed me to copy it!

I refused, pulled the original firms terms from their site. They kicked off big time and called me difficult it happens all the time.

If you're going to be in this business OP you need to have watertight terms and be prepared for chancers like this!

@Hont1986
not everyone can run to a solicitor for every little question. Besides, OP is asking what seems reasonable, not what is legal.

A procurement professional could advise her if she showed them the contract. Wouldn’t have to be a solicitor unless there is disagreement in interpretation of the T&Cs.

And in a case like this, “seems reasonable” isn’t good enough. It has to also be legally sufficient and in accordance with the contract terms and conditions to be reasonable.

That is madness do not refund. Two weeks is no way enough time to form a working relationship. Turning around strategy docs in this timeframe is really good for a small biz. These guys sound nuts. Also how are they to know you haven't turned down new business to take them on. If they don't want you doing the work then fine but they need to cough up. I feel like smaller companies paying low fees to agencies are always completely batshit with unreasonable expectations!

Sorry you can tell I am triggered!!!

OP has already sorted out the legal side, she says the contract states they are on the hook for the full three months.
She is asking about what refund to offer them out of goodwill.

No, they’re obviously trying it on. By the sounds of it they’ve got work they’re happy with and are trying to get it for free.

If they're not happy with what you've produced so far then you need to work with them until theyre happy, or refund the time you haven't spent yet. Maybe they don't have the confidence that you can deliver what they're expecting based on what you've done so far.

Does your contract include a notice period? In that case you can ask for payment for that and then call it a day.

However did you agree specific KPIs/deliverables? If so, that's what they are paying for and if you delivered them early then you still delivered them. Unless they are also paying for strategy and consulting in which case you are yet to fulfill that for the rest of the contracted time.

But there's no way they should get a refund IMO.

Hell no

You can bet your bottom dollar they’ll still use your press release and strategy!

Give them a refund and put it in the past. Do you want a malicious client who doesn't appreciate being locked into a contract? They'll look to make your life hell and trash your reputation every chance they get.

If you give them a refund they’ll probably tell everyone about the great little PR business that does free work.

Don’t give them a penny

@Sparechange

Hell no

You can bet your bottom dollar they’ll still use your press release and strategy!

Absolutely

Go back over your contract with a fine tooth comb.

There are businesses of all sizes, not everyone can run to a solicitor for every little question.

Every business needs a solicitor to write up typical contracts. If you try to run your business without the backing of a solicitor you risk losing money, and worst case scenario you will end up having to hire one anyway.

Avoiding solicitors is being penny wise and pound foolish.

@Hont1986

OP has already sorted out the legal side, she says the contract states they are on the hook for the full three months. She is asking about what refund to offer them out of goodwill.

Lol. You are quite wrong. No actual contract ever states and only states “buyer is on the hook for three months” 🤣🤣🤣🤣 OP doesn’t have the legal side sorted AT ALL, because if she did, she would not even be asking the question of how much to refund or not refund. The contract T&Cs (if there is one) dictate the answer.

@Arabelladrinkstea

Honestly for the agro it’s worth I’d refund £500 as you’ve done 2 weeks out of 4 weeks work and walk away with your head held high. After all PR is all about who you know and your reputation.

OP isn't being paid by the hour! - unless you think professional PR is charged out at £250 a week for full team engagement?

Don't refund OP - they've taken your intellectual property, & they need to pay for it. Just offer a goodwill gesture of early termination, & keep the £1k they've paid to date.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Lol. You are quite wrong. No actual contract ever states and only states “buyer is on the hook for three months”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
OP doesn’t have the legal side sorted AT ALL, because if she did, she would not even be asking the question of how much to refund or not refund. The contract T&Cs (if there is one) dictate the answer.

Do you know anything about business Plan? It's perfectly possible to agree payments in a contract and if you sign the agreement you have to pay the agreed amounts unless there has been a material breach of the agreement, as set out in the agreement.

Whatever the contract says. Don't refund if you've genuinely been working in good faith.

[quote tallduckandhandsome]@PlanDeRaccordement

Lol. You are quite wrong. No actual contract ever states and only states “buyer is on the hook for three months”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
OP doesn’t have the legal side sorted AT ALL, because if she did, she would not even be asking the question of how much to refund or not refund. The contract T&Cs (if there is one) dictate the answer.

Do you know anything about business Plan? It's perfectly possible to agree payments in a contract and if you sign the agreement you have to pay the agreed amounts unless there has been a material breach of the agreement, as set out in the agreement.[/quote]
I have a Masters in Business Administration. So yes, I do. It is possible to agree to payments in a contract (duh...like I’d imply that?), but there is always a deliverable linked to said payments. A contract is not legal if there is no compensation for payment.

As in you don’t pay for nothing. It is always specified in a contract what exactly you are paying for.

And in a service contract it is usually one of two things: a specific deliverable product or labour expressed in terms of hourly rate.

OP has not specified what her contract said. Whether she had a customer “on the hook” for 3 months of “best effort” PR services or “on the hook” to pay for deliverables x, y, z.

OP has also not specified whether her services or deliverables met the acceptable standard specified in the contract or were rejected by her customer as substandard.

Since we have none of the detail and no privity of contract, no one can fucking tell her if she is legally obligated to refund the customer or not.

I don’t think this is an appropriate question for an AIBU forum.

What does your contract say?