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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are there toxic parents on mumsnet?

85 replies

kavalkada · 17/11/2021 05:41

It is something that always troubles me on mumsnet.

I had very abusive parents, both in different ways. My father was a gambler who made our lives a living hell, and I know my mother had a terrible life with him. She was only 20 when she married him, he was 30. She was pregnant with me. I don't know if she would've married him if she wasn't pregnant with me. Mabye yes, mabye no.

I have younger brother. Unlike me, my mother adored him from the moment he came to this world. He was the apple of her eye and there were always cuddles, kisses, hugs for him. You can see it on our family photographs.

As long as I remember, my mother (and father) never kissed me, never hugged me, never cuddled with me. I remember my father holding my hand once during winter olympics, and that was it.

But there was always a belt and a cane in the kitchen if I get naughty. And I did. I haven't eaten lunch - cane over my hands and back, something fell from my hand and broke, belt, I said something I shouldn't (I was four when it started), cane. You get the picture.
Nobody ever shouted and hit my brother.

I was a house maild, ever since I was 6, washing and cleaning like a proper adult. I was 8 when I started ironing saturdays, for hours, because my parents had uniforms and there were lot of them. My brother never made his bed.

Until I met my husband 10 years ago, I didn't know how happy a family life can be. I have two children now, a boy and a girl, and looking at them for the life of me I can not see why my parents made such a difference between me and my brother.

My father was a crap father in every way, but ne never beat me (well, it happened once).

I now live in the other party of my country. I am not NC from them, but I said to myself that I will never ever in my life be alone with them, only if my husband was there. This happened two years ago after spending a week alone with my mother and my children, and she started abusing me again, not with cane, but every other way.

But this is my question. If my mother had a mumsnet in her day, she would come here and write about her hard life. And it was hard. Very poor, no clothes in the winter, alcoholic father, gambler husband, nobody to help her with two little children. She was in hell most of the time. The only thing she had was her job she loved and without it we would be hungry.

She would write all that, probably skipping the part about daily beating her older child, and everybody would jump to tell her not to be so hard on herself, and that she is doing best for her children and that her children love her no matter what.

I see posters coming and asking if they're a terrible parent all the time. Sometimes, they're really not, just too hard on themselves, you want to hug them and tell them, but sometimes, they're not. You can see that even from the things they write, and they probably do not write the whole story. And they're always said they're good parents, doing their best.

So my question is, why on mumsnet it is not allowed to say mother is sometines awful mother? I'm saying mother, because we have threads about crap fathers on daily base and nobody is defending them.

OP posts:
crankysaurus · 17/11/2021 07:48

I think you're right, op, there are threads on here sometimes that make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, especially the ones where someone's older kids are going LC/NC with them. I do tend to think regularly that we're just hearing the poster's view point only, but never that of the partner or the kids.

Pinkgorrilaz · 17/11/2021 07:48

@DrSbaitso

Every parent swears they haven't got a favourite child, or if they have, they hide it perfectly and nobody would ever know.

But plenty of kids say there was a clear favourite.

I'm pretty sure there's a fair amount of misalignment.

My mum said this to me when she was terminally ill: well at least I treated you all equally. She really, really didn't and I was the scapegoat but at that stage there was no point in challenging her.

I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience with your mum. I do think that a lot of people on mumsnet have had normal parents, who occasionally got things wrong or had a few flaws. They don't understand the difference between that and truly toxic parents, and therefore often insist that you need to honour your mum, you only get one mum, etc.

Lollyneenah · 17/11/2021 07:52

I agree with you OP. The problem I see fairly often is a failure to safeguard- ie the husband is abusive/a drunk/a bully and the poster is wringing their hands about starting all over again 🙄
I had a difficult childhood due to my mum being abusive to me and an alcoholic, except I had a wonderful dad. It was a bizarre feeling g when I realised that my dad could have left her and taken me away from it

OryxAndCrake11 · 17/11/2021 07:54

I think Mumsnetters do call out abusive behaviour when they see it. I remember once where a poster said she punished her child for toiletting accidents by spraying her with cold water in the bath, and another where her child had to eat cold leftovers in the dark if they were hungry having not eaten dinner. In both cases everyone came down on them like a ton of bricks. Posters who admit to taking their unhappiness out on kids are always called out on it too - just yesterday a woman said she was snappy with her kids due to an unhappy marriage, and was told she has to leave.

I don't think assuming most posters who come here worried that they're messing up parenting are toxic is the right way forward. Parenting is hard, most of us are doing our best, and sometimes posters just need support to make changes.

That said, I am so sorry for what you went through OP.

Worldwide2 · 17/11/2021 07:59

Your post brings back alot of how i was treated as a child mainly by my mother. Alot of violence (only me) and so much favouritism which is still very much in place nowadays. I have confronted my mother over her treatment of me but she either shuts down completely or will say she has no memory of such things. Growing up myself and now having children it magnifys what happened to me as a child. If ss had known I would definitely been removed. Lots of the family witnessed the violence and treatment but did nothing. Which is astounding really. Makes me angry no one stood up for me. So understand completely when you say no one stands up for children but there is full support for the mother. However on here we only see that mothers point of view and we can only go on that really. I do think nowadays there is alot more support for children and safeguarding is massive. Obviously child abuse is missed all the time but I think the world has gotten better at recognising the signs. Just wanted to say I really understand how you feel 💐

DrBlackbird · 17/11/2021 08:04

A friend of mine recently tried to defend the abusive husband I was leaving by saying he was just acting on his insecurities

When my DH said to me "it doesn’t matter why someone has a boot on your head, all that matters is that they have a boot on your head!" was my wake up call to stop making excuses for people’s shitty/bad behaviour.

Hodgehog · 17/11/2021 08:11

I agree with the points from PP - one that people are only able to go on the OP and their own personal life experiences and also that I have seen bad parenting to the extent it’s abuse called out on her. I remember the one about the child being washed in cold water and remember another with a teenager - the mother had found a text “claiming” they they were abusive sent to a friend.

She then went on to admit they were physically violent to him in the same breath and this was picked up on and she was told she was abusive.

My mother was …I’m told it’s abuse even if that’s not what they intended.

But my mother I don’t think ever understood the emotional demands of raising a child and that that child would be dependant on her and she wasn’t really able to fulfil that. To the point of being quite cruel to me although she wouldn’t see it that way.

I remember being ill once - vomiting a lot and she literally couldn’t not understand why I wanted her with me when I was being sick. I’d have been about 7. She said so too. Ideally she could have just left me to it to do whatever it was she was doing instead.

I kept going looking for her in the house dragging the bucket with me.

AlleZusammen · 17/11/2021 08:15

I think sometimes people reveal themselves to be toxic on mumsnet when they are responding to someone struggling with an angry, unhappy child's behaviour. The op will detail trauma the child has experienced and someone will come on and say "I wouldn't put up with that behaviour in this house. They then go on to describe how they'd heap on severe, quite degrading punishments and tell everyone repeatedly what an awful child they'd been. Just a really shit approach to parenting that doesn't help and would just increase the child's anger.

Grabmygran · 17/11/2021 08:16

OP sending so much love.

I think this is an important topic.. perhaps Mumsnet could speak to some experts and abuse survivors about some of these signs you see in posts and come up with some wording to be put in a response to any posts that have these signs?

donquixotedelamancha · 17/11/2021 08:16

Are there toxic parents on mumsnet?

Doubtless you are right, there will be loads.

So my question is, why on mumsnet it is not allowed to say mother is sometines awful mother?

The awful mothers don't admit it on here. I think there are lots of threads where it's obvious that the OP is not being honest and is blaming everyone but themselves. Many posters do challenge this but there are always some who jump in with 'be kind' or insist that the other party is bullying them.

The ones that upset me most are the social services/school/police picking on me threads because I know that a large proportion of those OP will be bullshitting and the reality is often that they are terrible parents.

Mumoblue · 17/11/2021 08:34

I’m not going to lie, sometimes I read some threads and don’t comment because I have nothing positive to say and I don’t want to be seen as piling on the OP.
But yeah, all sorts of parents come on here, so it logically follows that bad and abusive parents probably do too.

Capferret · 17/11/2021 08:45

My ex sil would be nice as pie and so reasonable on MN, I’m sure.
She is very hard, twists things to fit her narrative and used to scream at my db and the dc.
She really is a very unpleasant woman.
Two of the dc rocked themselves to sleep, they were locked into their bedrooms, au pairs were screamed at and never stayed for long.
My poor dm used to suffer her verbal abuse just so she could see the dc.
Best thing my db ever did was leave that marriage.
The dc were teens by then. However when db suggested giving maintenance directly to dn because she was starting uni sil said she wouldn’t be allowed home unless sil got the money herself.

Hardbackwriter · 17/11/2021 08:49

I often think this - that if you start a thread saying your mum used to scream at you in 1985 you get a lot of sympathy and assurance that she was abusive, but if you start one saying that you scream at your kids now you get lots of reassurance that while this isn't ideal you're not a bad mother and it's not your fault.

Peppaismyrolemodel · 17/11/2021 08:50

@Tryagainplease

We talked last few years about the abuse and one time I asked her why she did it, she answered me that she was miserable, and I was the only person who was not going to turn against her, no matter what she did

How did that make you feel? Did you believe her?
There are no excuses for abusive behaviour, IMO.
A friend of mine recently tried to defend the abusive husband I was leaving by saying he was just acting on his insecurities…

Now I tend to think very few people are genuinely sociopathic enough to abuse for sport. So there will always be an excuse or a reason… but as I pointed out to my friend - I have insecurities too. Many of them so won’t don’t I treat people that way? There has to be another layer there - and I genuinely think it is pure entitlement. The abuser doesn’t deal with his/her insecurities in a healthy way - they feel entitled to punish others for how they feel.

I have only recently left abusive relationship so am still trying to process a lot of it. But no way would STBX admit that his behaviour was unfair. He just comes up with excuse after excuse. I used to believe his excuses… I don’t anymore.

This is absolutely spot on Always a reason. That reason is never good enough
BonnesVacances · 17/11/2021 08:55

I was thinking this earlier. There's a thread where the father bought a coffee machine for the OP and is now seeming to give her the silent treatment because she asked if she could change it for the one she actually wanted. It has red flags all over it based on what the OP has written, but everyone else is justifying his behaviour and saying he's probably upset.

Sorry to hear about your childhood OP. Absolute respect to you for breaking the cycle and giving your own DC the childhood you didn't have. I hope that makes up for your own tenfold, even though it has left you with lasting trauma.

Babdoc · 17/11/2021 09:14

OP, I am sorry you had such a hard start in life. I would suggest you check out the "Stately homes" thread here on MN - it is for the adult children of abusive parents, and is very supportive.
My own parents were toxic, and I went no contact with them 30 years ago, when pregnant with my first child. I wanted to shield my own DC from them, and had no regrets. I did not attend their funerals, and only grieve for the loving parents I never had.

kavalkada · 17/11/2021 09:19

@Babdoc

OP, I am sorry you had such a hard start in life. I would suggest you check out the "Stately homes" thread here on MN - it is for the adult children of abusive parents, and is very supportive. My own parents were toxic, and I went no contact with them 30 years ago, when pregnant with my first child. I wanted to shield my own DC from them, and had no regrets. I did not attend their funerals, and only grieve for the loving parents I never had.
I admire you for that. I still sometimes think I did something wrong. I know I didn’t, but it is like my brain can not process that in full.

But I’m better.

I admire you on your courage. I hope you’re better.

OP posts:
nokidshere · 17/11/2021 09:24

@kavalkada . I'll be better. I will not let them hurt me again.

I've told my story on here more than once. Violent house, alcoholic dad, poverty etc etc until finally in care.

When I was 17 I was kicked out of care with 20quid and left to get on with my life. I swore as I left I would never let anyone who had been in my life up to that point ever have a moments thought in my head. And I didn't. You keep that thought in your head @kavalkada and your life will change for the better. You don't have to have anyone in your life that you don't want to. I hope you can get to a point where yours is the only voice you need to hear.

In terms of the OP I definitely see bad parenting on here. It's hard to know for sure because clearly we don't get the full picture, but it's there under the surface of the posts. I've been flamed more than a few times over the years for suggesting adults need to take responsibility for their actions and stop blaming their past. It's not easy and it's not quick but at some point in our lives we have to take some responsibility for our own actions despite what happened to us as children.

Itsjustrenee · 17/11/2021 09:28

Your childhood was very similar to mine. Lots of emotional and physical abuse and then sexual abuse by my father when I was older.

I’m in my fifties now and went no contact about 17 years ago. It was the best thing I’ve ever done.

I put a lot of thought into what kind of mother I wanted to be and I’m proud of myself that I’ve not replicated any of their abusive toxic behaviours. I also went on to have a long career in child protection which gave me an enormous amount of satisfaction. I almost felt like I was saving myself as well as the children I dealt with.

There are definitely terrible mothers in mumsnet, as there are anywhere.

Ozanj · 17/11/2021 09:42

I had a similar upbringing and Mum now pretends it didn’t happen and has tried to convince my other siblings that I’m lying. That didn’t work for my sister who saw the abuse I got but has worked for my brothers who were spoiled and got to live charmed lives & so probably didn’t realise 99% of what went on at home. Mum and Dad’s new trick now is to try and convince everyone what a bad mum I am using made up examples despite my son being a million times more confident and secure than his cousins.

JumperandJacket · 17/11/2021 09:46

I’m sorry about your awful childhood, OP.

Mixed feelings about the idea of toxic parents on Mumsnet. I’m sure that there are parents on here presenting themselves as angels when they’re anything but. On the other hand, I also feel that the response can be extremely harsh and unforgiving when people post about parenting mistakes.

WonderfulYou · 17/11/2021 09:59

YANBU and I’m sorry for everything you went through.

My mum was never physically abusive but she’s always been quite mentally abusive and narcissistic. She would never admit to any wrongdoing as in her mind she’s not doing anything wrong.
So I think some posters intentionally leave things out but also some don’t mention it as they can’t see anything wrong in their behaviour.

Most people if they knew their behaviour was wrong would change it. So now I’m a parent I also try and think about my actions and whether they are ok or not.

LarkspurLane · 17/11/2021 10:16

Yes, I think so. It may not be the person starting the thread about (possibly) a one-off incident, but some of the responses within can be very questionable. I know there was one poster who wrote "my child knows better than to talk at school about what happens at home" (or similar) about something not very serious and while that poster may have been fine, it really got me thinking.
I hope all of you reading this thread from toxic backgrounds find some peace.

BogRollBOGOF · 17/11/2021 10:16

There will be toxic and abusive parents on here, but I would hope that thousands of childrens lives have been made better where posting on MN has been a call to address damaging behaviours such as seeking help for PND (where it's detrimentally affecting care for the child), breaking patterns of abusive partners, getting support with undiagnosed SENs (MN helped me recognise ASD; I wasn't abusive but my parenting is now better matched to DS's needs and less from the NT convention and wondering why we're floundering)

We only get the one side of a story and that is what advice will be based on. Hopefully it is less common where poor behaviour is validated. If the poster has heavily edited their story, the responsibility is still theirs, not on the people responding in good faith.

Mothers like OP's probably give themselves enough self validation that they wouldn't come near MN and their behaviour is so abhorent that it would not be condoned (apart from the odd inevitable troll)

Some of the more extreme behaviours inflicted on children through Covid were verging into abusive, excessively denying children access beyond the home, isolating from young children, regularly performing unnecessary invasive tests, stripping children on the threshold of the house when coming home from school, and such behaviours were encouraged in 2020. Fortunately sense seems to have (mostly) returned in 2021. People being critical of the toll of these measures were shouted down and told that children are resilient.

But generally MN tends to do more good than harm.

thepeopleversuswork · 17/11/2021 10:25

I’m sorry you had such a bad upbringing.

MN has a vast amount of users so inevitably there will be some abusive parents on here.

It’s a self selecting group and as it’s a support group for mums there’s bound to be a bias in favour of supporting the mum where there’s uncertainty.

I’m not sure what more you can do about this though really: it’s impossible to verify what people post and you have to either take it on trust or disengage. MNHQ is pretty active at removing suspected liars and the community is pretty good at letting people know when they have overstepped a line so in lots of ways I think it self regulates quite effectively.

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