To be FURIOUS if I don’t get this job!

[LaLaLaDiDahLa]

I was offered a job 6 weeks ago. Literally offered it within a hour of the interview. I was stunned and gladly accepted.

It’s a perfect job for me as a returner to work after being a SAHM for 8 years, great hours, mix of office and WFH, great pay and benefits, my would be boss is really nice and I’ll be working in a team of women of a similar age to me so hopefully I’ll fit in. Also opportunity to progress as it’s a huge organisation.

It was only my 2nd interview after starting to look for work and I had another one scheduled that I cancelled and also had interview requests from another 3 jobs that I didn’t take any further.

I was told I’d start in about a month.

Anyway, I got the offer a month! later with a start date of this week. I had to complete the new starter info on an online portal and provide references. This said I had to provide references for the last 3 years and provide character refs for any period of employment.

As I haven’t been employed for 8 years, I provided character refs. The HR hub responded that these alone aren’t enough so I said they could contact my previous two employers and thought I’d better chase them up as well.

Found out my employer of 12 years ago has no record of me as they only have to keep staff information for 6 years if they’ve left and they had a new database installed last year so they didn’t carry over anything over 6 years old.

My employer of 8 years ago is not responding to my requests to see if they’ve still got my records and I kept being told someone will get back to me but they don’t.

I have offered pension statements from both those jobs as proof I worked there but new employer’s HR people have said they won’t accept them as it doesn’t show dates of employment! My would be boss is trying to get them to give me a break but I’m expecting the offer will be withdrawn.

So I’ll have been hanging around waiting to start a job for 6 weeks when potentially I could have been offered one of the other jobs and started it.

It is clear from my CV I haven’t worked for 8 years. I don’t want to be pissed at my would be boss but she must have known the references policy!

if you had never worked before you would have to make do with character references surely?

It will cost them a lot more to re-interview etc especially since it took so long to give you an offer. I don't think they'll rescind the offer

@MrsLargeEmbodied

if you had never worked before you would have to make do with character references surely?

This is what I was thinking, how does anyone ever get their first job if this is a requirement that can't be lifted?

Is this Civil Service? Sounds eerily familiar, if it is it will be sorted out, but they do move in slow and mysterious ways....

That sounds really annoying. It's probably worth continuing to apply for jobs and mention the reference issue if they call you for interview so that you don't end up hanging around for weeks again.

I'm retraining this year and will be back on the job market next year and I'm a little worried about this. I stopped working nearly 14 years ago. The company I worked for was sold just before I left, and then sold again at least once after I left, so it basically doesn't exist anymore. Plus I've moved country. There is virtually zero chance of a reference. On the other hand the market is apparently very short of data analysis people so maybe some company will be desperate enough to take a chance on me.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar could you volunteer somewhere part time? They could provide a reference for you.

I'm in a similar position in not being able to get work references due to a career break. It really is a policy intended to fuck over anyone who has been out of work for any reason for any time.

Especially when you consider references are hardly useful or reliable to a new employer anyway! I had to provide information about a 'gap' of time to one employer that was more than 20 years ago. When I had returned to studying. The break in employment/ before the post grad was one month. I said I just travelled and they took a 10 minute conversation with HR as to whether that was 'acceptable' I did not pursue the offer when they sent it to me.

@TractorAndHeadphones

It will cost them a lot more to re-interview etc especially since it took so long to give you an offer. I don't think they'll rescind the offer

Not necessarily. They may just go to their second preferred candidate and offer them. Depends on how urgent the role is and how willing they are to wait for the OP.

I had a similar "computer says no" experience when I applied for a local govt job which asked for "employment references from your most recent two employers". I had been with my company for 25 years, any employer previous to that would have been pre-University and obviously untraceable. After a ridiculous amount of two'ing and fro'ing via my would-be boss, they accepted one employer reference and one personal reference. Hopefully common sense will prevail for you too.

@Brefugee

Here in Germany you have to be given a reference, in writing, whoever you leave a job. When did that stop in UK?

This hasn't happened for a long time. The last time I got a written reference on leaving a job was back in the late 80s.

I had similar in sept when returning to work after an 8 yr gap. I was able to show my NIC contributions from the gateway portal which helped. They show the years you contribute due to employment, and years you receive the full stamp because of child benefit etc.
This job only went back 6 yrs for employment checks so I could have got a reference from my last employer but that wasn't required!

@Greaterthanthesumoftheparts

The reason why your old employers don’t have data is because data protection laws (can’t remember exactly which ones but I’m sure someone else would know) prevent them from retaining data for that long. Surely your new HR department are also aware of these laws, you might want to remind them. Basically, the probably shouldn’t be asking for this info.

I thought it was seven years. Having been out of school teaching (where they always want a reference from your last school) for nearly seven years, I contacted the last school to ask that they keep my file for longer (with my permission). They replied to say they'd already shredded it. Darn.

I previously worked for one of the big banks & had this problem they will only issue a reference for 7 years it was a bit of a nightmare as I worked in a regulated field but had been self employed doing something different when children were small - luckily my self employed work references were from teachers & police etc so they decided they could accept these

I would speak to your new boss again and explain the situation.

I worked in place A for 8 years, then place B for 2 and went on maternity. I’ve been off for years now and place A offered me a job but said they want 2 employment references. I explained I have only ever worked wjth them and place B and apparently that’s not good enough.

I think some places get blinded by procedure!

If you are no longer in touch with anyone from your days of employment (References don't have to be a line manager) can you track them down on Linked In?

This really isn't unusual. We have similar policies but if people can't provide references they can't, we risk assess it and record why they didn't have the "required" references on the file.

I'm sure it will get sorted. As others have said they risk discriminating against several protected groups if not.

I had a similar situation, had been a sahp for 8 years and at a job for 3 years. New job required proof of employment for last 6 years (outsourced to Experian). I couldn't provide it, obviously, so gave them all the details instead. Experian decided I needed to give them proof of being a sahp. Firstly they wanted p60s. Then when I pointed out you don't get paid for being at home they wanted 'some other' proof. I provided Childs birth certificate. Not enough, they wanted proof of child benefit. Except my DH is a high earner so I don't get child benefit. It went backwards and forwards for WEEKS, I was tearing my hair out in the end, they just couldn't seem to grasp that it wasn't a period of employment.

I have almost the exact same problem! If I ever get myself together enough to apply for a job I simply won't be able to provide employment references. Because the company I worked for went bust a year after I left. Because I was one of the bosses. Because the other boss has since died. Because no paperwork exists in the office anymore. I can prove I worked there, but nothing more than that.

I can at least provide references from people I've worked with since, but only ever in a volunteer role - so not employment references! It is infuriating!

I really feel for you, OP. The ridiculous thing is that references are so bland these days that they’re practically useless. If it were me, I’d just have a watertight probation period.

I freaking hate our HR hub. They seem to be specially designed to make it really hard to employ anyone. They drive me crackers.

No idea where you stand legally but not surprised you’re struggling to get references from such a long time ago. What I think I would do is say that I know I am capable of doing the job well but understand it’s risky for them to go ahead and offer the job without the references so suggest an extended probation period to allow them to fully check you out.

I did offer to go temp to perm but I was told because of the probation period it wouldn’t make any difference,

@CorrBlimeyGG oh no, that doesn’t sound good. So we’re looking at two months and counting then for that. If I send the form tomorrow. probably won’t get it back until January at the earliest. I doubt they’ll wait that long. The current post holder is moving to another role at the end of the week.

I did have a P60 from my last job but I remember going through my paperwork and binning it a few years ago. Thought it didn’t matter as I hadn’t got a new job within that tax year.

Honestly it will be like a cruel joke if they withdraw the offer. I really thought it would be nigh on impossible to get back into a decent job at my age (50) and after all the time I have been out but to get offered one that suited me perfectly in a very worthwhile field I have a big interest in and then lose it after hanging around building myself up to it, will be really upsetting. It’s literally a 5 minute walk from my house as well so no commute!

To add to the fact I didn’t even apply for it as I didn’t see it and they found my CV on a jobs website!

I have spent 8 years run ragged with a very challenging DC with ASD and learning difficulties (as well as my others) and I thought this would be something for me to get stuck into finally now he’s older and more self sufficient. FFS!

@Brefugee

Here in Germany you have to be given a reference, in writing, whoever you leave a job. When did that stop in UK?

That was never a thing in the UK in my lifetime.

The UK is such a mad country. All this bollocks, schools apparently more interested in which shoes children wear and the contents of lunch boxes than teaching them and a corrupt incompetent government.

How does anything actually get done?

OP - as pp noted approach them and point out how discriminatory this practice is.

Your experience chimes with my experience of the stupidity of HR in every place I’ve worked. As a manager, I end up double and triple checking everything and anything to do with HR.