To say a crash HAS to go through insurance

[Chelyanne]

So on the school run and bang... a woman reversed out in to the side of our car.
She asked me if we could not involve insurance and she'd pay for the damage (passenger door, rear wing, rear bumper, side trim and alloy all have visible damage). I said no it has to go through insurance and she left in a huff leaving me with no contact details, I did get a pic of her numberplate on and we have dash cams front and rear too. No injuries to me or 5 kids in the car, she had an adult passenger and they both looked okay too.

Do you think I was being unreasonable saying no to her?

Her renewal insurance was £100 higher than if she’d not had the claim. I rang the insurers to query it, and yes, that’s how insurance works. Even non fault claims bump up prices. Absolutely wrong and unfair, but that’s how they work

Insurers work off probability. If you have had one accident, even if it isn't your fault, you are statistically more likely to have another. The accident tells the insurer that you are in a higher risk group. Take the OP - she does a school run, so she is more likely to have another crash involving another SR parent than someone who never drives in rush hour near a school.

Of course this feels unfair, but the alternative is someone who is lower risk bearing more of a share of the cost. If insurance is a pool of £100 from 10 drivers, should every driver pay £10 into the pool? Or should drivers 1, 2, and 3, who are at higher risk of crashing, pay £15 each and drivers 4-10, who are at low risk, pay £7.86 each?

Drivers 1-3 and 4-10 are going to have different opinions on which is fair!

As the other woman left without leaving her details, you should inform the police as she left the scene of an accident.

OP’s insurance WILL increase even if the claim is settled in full by the other party’s insurers. It didnt used to be this way many years ago, but it is now.

Yes I know. It will probably also increase if she reports an accident that she doesn't claim for. Do you have any reason to believe it will increase more for a claim that costs the insurance company nothing than for a non-claim that costs the insurance company nothing?

In both scenarios, the cost to the insurance company is the same, and their perception of how risky the OP is to ensure must change by the same amount, because it's the same accident with the same cost to them in both scenarios.

I’ve done it privately a few times with no issues. Get a few quotes and take it from there.
Altho now she hasn’t given you details you won’t be able to, and your premiums will probably go up

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

YANBU - report her to Police 101 for leaving the scene without exchanging details. They won't be interested or do anything but it will at least be recorded. Then tell your insurers.

Yup.

@RandomLondoner

No, with a private repair when Mrs Smith has crashed into Mrs Jones, Mrs Smith pays for the repairs to Mrs Jones' car directly. Neither insurance company has to pay anything. Mrs Smith's premiums will probably still go up, because her insurer now sees her as higher risk, but not as much as they would have done if her insurer had paid for repairs. Mrs Jones' premiums usually don't increase. If it goes through insurers, Mrs Jones may see her premiums go up or lose her NCD, even though Mrs Smith caused the accident.

It's only fair that Mrs Smiths premiums don't go up as much as they otherwise would, because she's save her insurance company the cost of repairs. Overall, it's not clear, and goes against economic logic, that Mrs Smith is any better off.

In any case, we don't care about her, it's Mrs Jones that matters.

Mrs Jone's will only lose her NCB if her insurance company doesn't recover costs. In the scenario we're supposed to beleive that the other party can be trusted to pay, so supposedly this is a non-issue.

Mrs Jones will probably have increased premiums, but why would her premiums increase more in scenario (a) no-claim, no cost to her insurance company, than in scenario (b) no-fault claim in which insurance company recovers 100% of costs, so no cost to the insurance company. Either way, her insurance company is out nothing. Either way, her premiums will probably increase.

That might seem logical, but it isn't correct, because insurers use both: (a) frequency of claims and (b) value of claims

to predict future losses and therefore to calculate premiums.

So (a) is unaffected by a private repair (assuming it's reported to the insurer, as it should be), but (b) is affected.

I should add in at least one of the situations, the damage was my fault and it was the other driver who asked it I was happy to sort it privately rather than through insurance.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

Well, I actually had a serious crash when I was driving a Portuguese registered vehicle which didn't belong to me, in Spain, when I was hit by a German. No common language between anyone at the scene.

Not an issue in this case so utterly irrelevant.

The form made it dead easy, as did the insurance stickers in the window. In this instance the EU arrangements simply were superior.

Not an issue in this case so utterly irrelevant.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone I was the one who brought the EU form up

YES it would have definitely have helped in this case. Because how the accident happened is written down, any injuries or damage is written down, all info from all parties is written down and SIGNED by all parties. So the other person wouldn't "just leave" without filling in and signing the form. Otherwise you call the police

You do have to report the fct that you have been involved in an accident, you dont HAVE to persue a claim through them.

Given thatshe has driven off without giving you details, you wont have much of a choice

I've had two minor bumps. Both times neither of us wanted to go through insurance. We settled up amicably. Fortunately both times the other party were really nice.

YES it would have definitely have helped in this case. Because how the accident happened is written down, any injuries or damage is written down, all info from all parties is written down and SIGNED by all parties. So the other person wouldn't "just leave" without filling in and signing the form. Otherwise you call the police

So having a super duper EU form would have stopped the other person just fucking off - OK then - the paper in those must have amazing magical powers.

@araiwa

Why would you think that you can tell her how to pay to get your car fixed. It's up to her if she pays it or gets her insurance to pay for it. She doesn't have to claim off her insurance if she doesn't want to. Insurance companies both need to be informed of incident but how she pays is up to her

This isn't true. I used to work for a big insurance company in the UK in motor claims - the OP can decide to settle privately if she wishes but legally still needs to inform her insurance company even if she doesn't wish to claim.

If the OP does want to claim through the insurance though then the third party doesn't get a say, OP's insurance company will deal directly with the TP's insurance company

you weren't unreasonable at all. You don't know this person, you don't know their background and indeed their honesty credentials. if it were the other way round you would assume someone asking for your insurance details the rationale move. you go gal.

All accidents / incidents should be reported to insurers and the police, if only for an incident number. Then let insurers sort it out. I handled claims for a large company and reported everything and believe me some third parties really go to town when they think a big company is involved, so really important to ensure the details of an incident established right from the beginning.

Inform Police with 24 hours of the accident.

@Jossbow

You do have to report the fct that you have been involved in an accident, you dont HAVE to persue a claim through them.

Given thatshe has driven off without giving you details, you wont have much of a choice

Can you tell me what the legal requirement is for that please?

I've had a couple of these chancers. They tend to back down rapidly if you say you expect them to pay for the hire car too while yours is in the shop...

Mind you, best one I ever got gave me her contact details (in her handwriting!) and I got a photo of the car and her, and then a few hours later after I'd reported it to my insurer, she denied she'd ever been there, seen me or anything. I sent the handwritten name and address (huge house, loads of cars!) and photos to insurers. She still argued! Turned out she'd taken the first car on the drive to do the school run as hers was blocked in, and it wasn't hers so she wasn't insured on it...

@Lou98 is there a legal requirement or is that just a term of a policy to notify insurers? Genuine question as my understanding is that there is no legal requirement but that may be different with RTA stuff compared to other types of insurance.

www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/if-youre-in-an-accident

If the OP does want to claim through the insurance though then the third party doesn't get a say, OP's insurance company will deal directly with the TP's insurance company

I guess you putting out incorrect information might be the reason that you no longer work in the insurance industry.

The third party can choose to pay themselves without using their own insurance cover. The OP can still claim through her own insurance.

Ops insurance company will the contact third party. At this point, the third party can choose to either reimburse the Ops insurance company for the cost of the claim out of their own pocket, or pass the claim onto their own insurance company.

Yes go through the insurance. The other party is unlikely to have budgeted for the repair costs (of easily up to mid four figures).

Whilst i COMPLETELY agree that the OP should go through the insurers (and the police for not exchanging details), I can't help but feel this would be a much easier decision if the premium hikes for being non fault weren't so ridiculous and would alleviate a load of this all the time.

My car was hit in the car park of a major venue causing £££ of damage due in the main to the area that was hit (would have been quite cheap if it was the middle of a door panel) but thankfully the offender left a note. I was not with the car at the time, and its a place i'm not likely to visit again, though thousands of others will each week, so to say its likelihood of being hit again is raised based on that specific incident is nonsense, yet I still had a chunky premium hike the next year. My lower risk as a female driver though is no longer allowed to be taken into account compared to a male driver, and I wonder if this is where they are trying to recoup some premium.

For people who work in insurance, do you think it's fair (note not the policy/rules) that if you are not at fault your insurance premium goes up, often not insignificantly. That's just punishing bad luck in many circumstances that could honestly happen to anyone.

You have to report the incident even if you chose to have the repairs done privately.

As a few pp have said, you have an obligation to inform your insurance company of any accidents even if you are not making a claim. If you don't it could invalidate your insurance.

However, I would always go through my insurance. It might increase your premiums a bit but it does protect you from ending up paying out more if the other party is dishonest or the damage is more than expected. I once reversed in to a neighbour's car and she asked me not to go through the insurance (presumably so her premiums wouldn't be increased). She claimed that I had caused extra damage that I knew had been there already and ended up having the car written off. From the time of the accident until she received her payout she hired a large expensive car (hers had been a small old run around) and handed me an invoice for thousands this (far more than the value of her car)- followed by a solicitors letter when I refused to pay. As I had claimed on the insurance, they dealt with it all. The neighbour was very unhappy and didn't speak to me again as he was clearly left with a big car hire bill- but if I had not gone through the insurance I would at best have had to pay legal fees to defend against this.

Definitely through insurance!

A few months ago a lady reversed into my car (out of a bay and into the side of me)

When I was given the breakdown of work and costs when my car came back, it came to 3k.

Similar sort of damage to yours actually.