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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think working women shouldn't have to split 50/50 when divorcing?

147 replies

threeisacharm18 · 15/11/2021 10:47

I've name changed for this.

I'm seriously thinking about leaving my man-child of a husband. We have 2 kids, I'm the bread winner, work full time , paid 150k house deposit and do almost all housework, sorting out the kids, home admin etc... DH only ever does things if I ask him to. He's not proactive. Never takes the kids anywhere unless I point him to things to do or book it.

As I think about leaving him I'm increasingly annoyed at the idea of splitting custody and the assets 50/50 when he has never brought 50% to the table.

Why should working mothers have to be short-changed in marriage and in divorce?

Back when men were the breadwinners you could argue the wives' compensation was a husband who took care of the money. These days it feels like women put in 80-90% and equality upon split favours the partner.

AIBU in thinking this? And if not, how do women in this scenario protect themselves ?

OP posts:
CaveWoman1 · 15/11/2021 12:51

Hmmmm I can see both sides here. But honestly, if you really don't want another child you make sure it doesn't happen. You are also responsible here for that massive decision, and you must have considered the very real risk that he wouldn't change at time of conception.

You both need to take ownership over this and work it out for the best. You have both made lifestyle decisions that you need to "own" and the reality you now face is that you both chose where you are now.

Northernparent68 · 15/11/2021 12:53

If you decide not to divorce, would it be Iworth separating the tasks ie he does the laundry and after school activities rather than you manage him ?

ChateauMargaux · 15/11/2021 12:53

See a lawyer... but yes.. you might have to split the value of the house.. but you might get to stay in it until the youngest child is 18..or you guy him out now. If you share residency 50/50 and you have always both worked.. then it might be decided that you each have enough to provide for your family independently.

Good luck.

FreedomFaith · 15/11/2021 12:56

The 150k deposit on the house is your fault, or your solicitors. You should and more than likely were advised to ring fence it from him in the mortgage. You didn't bother, so yes he will likely get half of the house.

Childcare will probably end up 90% you, 10% him anyway once he realises he has no one to fall back on and doesn't know what he is doing. You've known for a long time he is useless, he isn't going to magically get better after a divorce and want 50/50. Well he will at first, then he won't be able to handle it.

femfemlicious · 15/11/2021 12:57

Yup if you are going to divorce then do it now. Give him 50% then move on and rebuild. You still have your highly paid job so will be able to rebuild what you lost. Its a shame you are pregnant tho.

Bolzana · 15/11/2021 12:57

I actually don’t think that anyone should get anything from their partners in case of divorce, be it the wife or the husband. That’s why I am not married

UniversalAunt · 15/11/2021 13:03

‘ I say cut your losses and divorce now. 50/50 is a starting point as it is the maximum he will get. 50% of what you have now will still be less than 50% of what you will have later when the children are older. Think about it. How much more money will be in your pension savings in ten years time? Your savings accounts? Your investments? Your house equity? Do the divorce now and you will keep 100% of what you earn and save from that day onwards.’

How practical is this!

Go see lawyer who specialises in family law to get advice now.
Find out where you really do stand.
Start gathering evidence & documentation.
Keep you powders dry ready (as in keep this to yourself) for action later on.

Focus on what you have now & what can be changed/improved within what is reasonable whilst you have a new baby & on maternity leave.

He can change, but you cannot change him.
You are the only one who can make changes right now - small changes, do less for him, ask more of him to balance the load, let him step up or fail.

Be fair to yourself by not rushing in to making an absolute decision about ending the marriage nor leave it so long that everything is too entrenched to move up & out.

Get good advice, consider with care, act with purpose.

BTW, congratulations on forthcoming baby.

Viviennemary · 15/11/2021 13:03

I think exes being allowed to raid pension pots is pretty bad and very unfair.

Djifunrsn · 15/11/2021 13:06

I am interested in the other issues here. If him being disorganised and not being able to think of what to do/make plans is the extent of the problems, by getting divorced you would:

  1. Not save money (which does appear to be an issue here) - you'd be each running a household separately so you would bear 100% of the costs of your household.

  2. Force your children to live between two homes for a relatively "minor" issue. And you would not live with them full time as a consequence. Plus you would be handing them over (including a baby) to someone who you consider incompetent.

In society, people do things that are suited to their skill set. You wouldn't ask a maths teacher to service your boiler for example. I get that it is frustrating but if he can understand that his lack of mental load bearing etc is stressful and tiring for you, then he needs to do something that is suited to his skill set to take a different load off you instead.

My feeling is that this problem could be solved. OK, perhaps it shouldn't need to be, but he isn't perfect. (Nobody is!) Is he a kind and decent human being though? Does he love you and the kids? You could list everything that he is capable of doing and write how frequently it needs to be done. Organisation is not his strong point. I suppose you could say that all adults ought to have these skills, but the reality is that they don't.

UniversalAunt · 15/11/2021 13:07

‘ Watch out for key markers that he might use to prove this to people externally, and neutralise them.’

Good advice this.
At least keep a journal through the coming months as the tiny insignificant everyday things noted soon roll up to paint a broader sweeping picture of what things are really like.

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 15/11/2021 13:10

@Viviennemary

I think exes being allowed to raid pension pots is pretty bad and very unfair.
It’s usually when one partner has reduced their income and future earning potential, plus their own pension pot to raise joint children that enables the other partner to continue earning and building their pension pot. So quite fair.
theworldsastage · 15/11/2021 13:14

I don't see why working mums should be treated specially when divorcing.

But I do take issue with how the reason for divorce isn't taken into account when splitting assets. Marriage is a contract to love someone for the rest of your life - if a partner cheats, in my mind, they've broken that contract, and they shouldn't get to run off with your heart and your assets.

I also don't think it's fair how one spouse can contribute less for the entire duration of the marriage and walk away with more.

It's why I won't get married as a financially independent woman. I think marriage is only worth doing if you're planning on being a SAHM and need the financial protection. If you're independently wealthy and/or don't have kids, marriage seems like the the worst contract you'll ever sign. Just shack up in sin.

OP, I feel for you. But you're wanting to change the legal parameters of a contract after you signed it. Marriage was always unfair, this isn't news.

idontlikealdi · 15/11/2021 13:17

Neither should working men.

UniversalAunt · 15/11/2021 13:19

‘ . I subsidise his half of our expenses and household bills as a result.’

Er, you say he earns a decent wage, just not as much as you.
So he can afford to contribute equally to everyday household & child expenses?

Where does his income go?

Small change right now: as you seem to pay all bills & likely have the records,, you can review the household budget, forecast budget for next couple of years & allocate sensible sums to essential & discretionary spends. Sum up & he pays half - he is an adult & a parent, so he pays his way which is half of budget. You will need to consider how best to present this change so that he ‘gets’ it, but persist as this is a reasonable ask in a marriage.

Journal & document every stage of this process - for your peace of mind, for your autonomy, your agency & so that you can see day-by-day if/how he steps up or wriggles out of it.

You can make change happen.

SeasonFinale · 15/11/2021 13:27

You don't subsidise his half of expenses you pay pro rata to what you earn which is what Mumsnet advise lower earning women to do.

HarrisonStickle · 15/11/2021 13:29

@threeisacharm18

Baby no 3 wasn't planned and was conceived during a period where I spoke to him (not for the first time) about his lack of proactivity. He started to do better but we are back now in the same situation.

He does work and makes decent money but not as much as me . I subsidise his half of our expenses and household bills as a result.

Anyway, it's been helpful hearing different perspectives.

If he works but earns less than you then his share of expenses is surely less. Did you work out the total household income then split the your expenses at a similar percentage? If so, you're not subsidising him, you're both paying a share that reflects your respective incomes.
HarrisonStickle · 15/11/2021 13:33

Sum up & he pays half - he is an adult & a parent, so he pays his way which is half of budget. You will need to consider how best to present this change so that he ‘gets’ it, but persist as this is a reasonable ask in a marriage.

If I were a lower earner and expected to pay half, so that the higher earning partner was better off, I wouldn't be getting it, ever.

FinallyHere · 15/11/2021 13:34

@theworldsastage

marriage is only worth doing if you're planning on being a SAHM and need the financial protection

Or to avoid IHT, which has to be paid on inheritance above a certain threshold

https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax

There is no tax due on transfers between married couples. The allowances can be carried forward for use on the death of the second partner to the marriage.

Pretty compelling argument, IMHO.

User135644 · 15/11/2021 13:34

@BillMasen

As I think about leaving her I'm increasingly annoyed at the idea of splitting custody and the assets 50/50 when she has never brought 50% to the table.

Why should working fathers have to be short-changed in marriage and in divorce?

This is MN.

Since when was marriage about fairness though? You're signing a contract. If you want to mitigate the risk do so at the time you sign it.

SomeFineDay · 15/11/2021 13:34

@theworldsastage

Totally agree. It’s insane to me that someone could for instance cheat with multiple people, then decide to divorce to live with one of them and this doesn’t affect the outcome of the asset/property split at all.
They need to bring in fault not as a precursor to allowing divorce, but so it affects divorce decisions.
It seems nuts and so unfair to me that it doesn’t.

PurpleOkapi · 15/11/2021 13:35

Back when men were the breadwinners you could argue the wives' compensation was a husband who took care of the money. These days it feels like women put in 80-90% and equality upon split favours the partner.

There were plenty of women who were crap with the kids and household labour in those days, just like there are now. I don't think they deserved 50% of their husbands' assets any more than your husband deserves 50% of yours. It was never a just system. But it's only recently that the inherent injustice has become likely to favor the man rather than the woman, so most women never saw a problem with it until now.

FinallyHere · 15/11/2021 13:39

But it's only recently that the inherent injustice has become likely to favor the man rather than the woman, so most women never saw a problem with it until now.

I think the days before the married woman's property act, in 1882, when anything she owned on her marriage was automatically transferred to his ownership ( unless tied up in trust) did in fact pretty much favour men.

And at least some women did notice the injustice of that.

User135644 · 15/11/2021 13:40

But it's only recently that the inherent injustice has become likely to favor the man rather than the woman, so most women never saw a problem with it until now.

And now Millenial and younger women outearn Millenial men on average and do far better in education (and have kids much later, if at all) that'll only increase.

Marriage is outdated in a world where most women work.

User135644 · 15/11/2021 13:40

It’s insane to me that someone could for instance cheat with multiple people, then decide to divorce to live with one of them and this doesn’t affect the outcome of the asset/property split at all.

No fault divorce.

roarfeckingroarr · 15/11/2021 13:44

Can you take a bit of time out and divorce him then, so you're a lower earner and the default parent? You'll have a better chance of keeping more of the house (especially if you can show you provided the deposit) and get a better custody deal. Play the system.