To wonder if I should have known? Or does it happen later?

[Todaywastheday]

I’m getting out of an emotionally abusive marriage and have so many thoughts going round my head.

I’ve noticed a lot of threads on here saying ‘why would you have kids with someone like that?’ But the more I think about my own situation, everything was ok before kids and since then its been different (mainly expecting me to do a lot and calling me a bully if I ask for help/support/giving me the silent treatment if I don’t just accept his way).

AIBU to have not realised sooner? Some things I’ve read suggest that emotional abuse can start after children. Any thoughts on whether that’s right? Or why?

Some men seem not to like the lack of attending them when babies come along so no, you won’t necessarily have known.
What is his dad like ?

*lack of attention on them

From what I have read on here OP, q lot of men don't become abusive until the wife/gf is pregnant.

I personally think this is because they can't handle the reality of not being 'number one' in their partners priorities anymore. Basically they are selfish gits.

I wouldn't waste your time trying to work out if there were red flags before, you are not at fault so use that energy into helping you move forward.

I wish you the best of luck you've done a very brave thing leaving.

People very often stride in here shouting ‘why did you have kids with this person?’. It smacks of an insidious type of victim blaming.
The dynamic changes when you have children, of course. Their needs come first for you, for a long time.

His dad was much older when he had children. I don’t think he was hands on, but it was a different time I guess. I haven’t seen any evidence of abuse, but his mum definitely did a lot more (despite his dad having long periods of unemployment)

Abuse often starts at the point of vulnerability. Pregnancy your are incredibly vulnerable. It's a cycle and a downward spiral and it's hard one to break when emotionally physically you need the other person.

The abuser knows this and plays on it. Slowly sucking the oxygen out of the room and uses your panicked state of can't breathe to reenforce the message your crazy to everyone abs sundry

The maid on Netflix is a harrowing but fairly accurate description of emotional abuse with children at play. Well worth a watch.

Most people know a abusive person, most will watch and blame the victim for staying because it's easier than watching them get hurt.

It takes 8 times on average to leave a abusive relationship, the abuser wants to isolate that person and make them unlovable. The why did you stay crowd, play right into the abusers hands.

I work with DV charity on my down time. It's so horrifying what people do when they feel uncomfortable, most normalise the abuse say things like think of the kids. Especially if it's emotional abuse.

To quote the maid "it grows like black mould"

@parrotonmyshoulder

People very often stride in here shouting ‘why did you have kids with this person?’. It smacks of an insidious type of victim blaming. The dynamic changes when you have children, of course. Their needs come first for you, for a long time.

Thank you. I think I needed to hear this.

Its hard because I had PND with our first which he throws in my face, but I’ve been well a long time and had another since with no PND, so I can’t help but think if things had been different and if I juggled everything better we might still be together. Sometimes its just so overwhelming though. I really have tried my best.

My sister was married to an an abusive man. The abuse started on honeymoon. We never liked him - too smarmy - but never suspected what he would do to her physically, emotionally and mentally. She lasted three years and ran away one night in bare feet with just the clothes she stood up in. some men are good actors.

And of course people may not realise they are in an abusive situation because they are being lied to, coerced, manipulated, gas-lit etc and it can be quite subtle especially at first.

@mdh2020

My sister was married to an an abusive man. The abuse started on honeymoon. We never liked him - too smarmy - but never suspected what he would do to her physically, emotionally and mentally. She lasted three years and ran away one night in bare feet with just the clothes she stood up in. some men are good actors.

That’s awful. I hope she is doing ok now.

@Tal45

And of course people may not realise they are in an abusive situation because they are being lied to, coerced, manipulated, gas-lit etc and it can be quite subtle especially at first.

Yes, I think it can be hard to understand this if you haven’t been through it.

I guess this is all tied up with worrying its all my fault after all. I think he changed, but did I cause that I suppose is what’s going through my head.

Don’t start blaming yourself. People who say these things often have NO experience of what these types of men are like or what it’s like to be in this sort of relationship.

I was with my now ex for nearly 6 years before we had dd. We were blissfully happy, no issues whatsoever. He turned into an abusive arsehole the minute I had dd. I had a bad birth experience and he would pressure me into sex, bully me and basically make my life hell. I left when she was about 8 months old. But before I had dd I could never have predicted what would happen.

I've asked myself this question a lot and i understand why you are going over this in your mind.

I still feel a lot of grief more than 2 years after leaving, although it was unquestionably the right thing to do.

For me, with hindsight, there were some red flags there from the start or at least indications of controlling behaviour but i was young and ignored them.

Also it was only occasional so didn't seem an issue.

It's hard to put my finger on the combination of things which made it turn into emotional abuse... Having kids, stress at work for exh, 2 high pressure jobs, a big house and garden... Or getting older and reverting to childhood patterns...

I'm not excusing it, exh knew what he was doing and thought i deserved to be "punished".

But i understand you are looking for answers about how things could have gone differently.

OP I'm an absolutely take no shit from anyone type of person but I could not clearly see the abuse in my marriage until it was over. So often the abuse is insidious, it ramps up almost imperceptibly and becomes normalised in the process. You recognise something is wrong but your abuser convinces you it's your fault even though that doesn't feel quite right either.

The boiling a frog analogy works and its impossible to understand if you haven't experienced it. When you look back you can see critical points where you think what was happening should have been obvious but it wasn't to you at the time. It's very confusing but it was not and never will be your fault, it's the nature of relationships with abusers.

If someone doesn't understand it I try to feel pleased for them that they have never been in that situation. More abused women in the world would not be a good thing.

I guess this is all tied up with worrying its all my fault after all. I think he changed, but did I cause that I suppose is what’s going through my head.

It might help to recognise this thought pattern as part of the abuse? You’re left feeling it’s your fault because he communicates day after day that it’s you - if you just did x, y and z he wouldn’t need to be so cruel to you. You bring it out in him you see?

And of course, it’s designed to make you not challenge, and certainly not leave, because if it’s your fault you deserve to be treated badly.

Try instead to put responsibility where it belongs, firmly at his door. He chose his behaviour, he did it. You’re doing the only safe, honourable thing in the circumstances- leaving him to get on with it.

@jamaisjedors

I've asked myself this question a lot and i understand why you are going over this in your mind.

I still feel a lot of grief more than 2 years after leaving, although it was unquestionably the right thing to do.

For me, with hindsight, there were some red flags there from the start or at least indications of controlling behaviour but i was young and ignored them.

Also it was only occasional so didn't seem an issue.

It's hard to put my finger on the combination of things which made it turn into emotional abuse... Having kids, stress at work for exh, 2 high pressure jobs, a big house and garden... Or getting older and reverting to childhood patterns...

I'm not excusing it, exh knew what he was doing and thought i deserved to be "punished".

But i understand you are looking for answers about how things could have gone differently.

Thank you for this. What you have described (minus the garden) is basically my exact situation. We’ve had so much on our plate with the kids and work and obviously covid and lockdowns as well. I have sometimes got to tired and stressed and he says I have taken that out on him and I wish I could go back and handle it all better. But then I think I really have tried my best. He never seems to offer me support and if I ask he says I’m bullying him and then will ignore me until I try and make amends. I know its not right but I can’t help but think maybe if i had been better it could have been avoided

I suspect there are often signs that someone is abusive before they snd their partner has kids and sometimes it's is appropriate to wonder why on earth the woman has kids with them. That's NOT victim blaming though. There are lots of reasons why women have kids with men who are abusive. I suspect hormones play a massive part. My drive to get pregnant when I was younger was massive and I'm sure it is for others. Look at the millions of threads where women are contemplating having kids when their are a million reason they shouldn't.
It's also hard to leave someone even if they are abusive . Again look at the zillions of threads where women (with and without kids) stay with abusive men. It's not victim blaming to question it. It helps understand why they are in that situation. You can be sympathetic and understanding at the same time
I know some men only become abusive after a woman has had a child but I bet with many are beforehand too it's just that it's not as much as a 'problem' before having kids where stress, money issues, sex issues(? I guess) attention, tiredness etc become more of a problem.

It sounds like you’re v much in still in the abusive relationship. Have you made the decision to plan to separate?

Accusations of ‘bullying’ can be abusive.
Silent treatment is abusive.
Saying nasty things about your PND is abusive.

I would never say 'Why did you have children with this man?!' because it's pointless and because there are lots of women with have traumatic pasts or dysfunctional family backgrounds who understandably find it difficult to make good relationship choices.

However, that doesn't mean that the signs aren't there early on in a relationship, even if the man doesn't become abusive until later. Very often in threads where a woman is contrasting what their husband was like early on compared with what he turned into later, the description of the 'perfect' early version sets my alarm bells ringing tbh.

Anyway OP, it's very unlikely he's changed from a good, kind man into a horrible one. He's probably just showing his true colours which were there all along underneath. Either way, it's not your fault. How could it be?

While you are continuing to blame yourself he is still abusing you.
Please set yourself free, and well done for getting out 💐

OP, sometimes there are signs before hand (although those can also be difficult to recognize unless you know exactly what top look for), but just as often there are no signs till marriage or pregnancy or some other important lifechanging event. Or it starts so slowly that it's like a frog in slowly boiling water situation.

Problem is that we are not experts. We often don't learn what to look for till we are faced with the situation outselves.

@Dozer

It sounds like you’re v much in still in the abusive relationship. Have you made the decision to plan to separate?

I’ve filed for divorce but we are having to still live in the same house

@GoodnightGrandma

While you are continuing to blame yourself he is still abusing you. Please set yourself free, and well done for getting out 💐

I guess the problem is that I have done things wrong and could have been better, which I think is probably true of everyone in any relationship…