Does your 5 yo still have tantrums (assuming no SEN)?

[wouldthatbeworse]

Mine does. Although have always wondered if she may have ASD.
Today she asked me to make a small ‘starter’ opening in a packet so she could open it. I accidentally opened it all the way. She then refused to eat the contents insisting on a new packet. I said no, offered to put in a bowl, etc. She then became so entrenched in her silly position that it turned into a full tantrum to the point she could hardly talk/ was breathing in gulps. Then DH saw how upset she was and agreed to the new packet as long as she ate the open ones tomorrow.

We have these mega tantrums 3-4 times a month, maybe more. Is this normal? Bad parenting? Only interesting as part of a wider pattern of behaviour? Thanks

My DS 5yrs is the same. No SEN but can have full on meltdowns over the smallest things. I did start to wonder if he maybe is SEN but he does not behave like this at school and his teachers were very shocked at his home behaviour being the total opposite.

Yes but mine is very stubborn and too independent thinking. I wouldn't change him for the world.

Today was good no tantrums, last night I used the wrong colour of bubble bath.

OH yes. Suspected sensory processing disorder (waiting for some assessments). Throws a strop over minor things all the time

Yes, when tired and only at home. Hoping they’ll vanish soon!

Sometimes. Usually if over tired.
Giving her a new packet is actively encouraging the tantrums. The message she gets is, scream enough and you can get it.

Our terrible twos went from 10m to 5y. I remember one where he was thrashing in circles on the floor at 5. He calmed down at 6 then SATs totally exceeded his coping threshold and at 7 he was reffered to the GP... ASD diagnosis as he turned 9.

Yes. She is NT (her sister isn't and there is a notable difference between a tantrum and a meltdown. The tantrum stops when she gets her own way). Usually triggered by being tired. She's old for her year but is at an international school with really long days and is still a bit of a crap sleeper. It's not abnormal, it's still pretty hard for them to regulate their emotions.

@Dahlietta

Ime from working in childcare, most 5 year olds don't, some 5 year olds do.

Mine never does at school, but does easily as often as yours at home. Elder one was the same.

I don't work in a school, so not based on that.

My 5 year old sobbed today because we were going to get the car valeted and she would “miss it looking like this”. And by “this” she meant filthy.

I chalked it up to mid-November fatigue. She was bought off in the Tesco toy section.

Pretty poor parenting by your DH IMO, you said no and DH over rode you and said yes because dd had a tantrum. Undermining you and encouraging future tantrums so he gets an easy life right now. Tell him if he keeps going like that and she'll still be tantruming for years to come. If she has ASD (as mine does) then I would take exactly the same position.

Before she'd had the tantrum though I would have apologised for accidentally ripping it all the way and told her that when she next has them I will be really, really careful to make sure I only do it a little way (or use scissors). You could also suggest that when she's finished the packet she could first cut the other end a little bit herself and then rip it if she wanted. It may not stop the tantrum but it might really help.

There is a vast chasm of difference between a tantrum and autistic meltdown.

A tantrum is stopped in its tracks by the child getting what they want.

An autistic meltdown is caused by overwhelm, the child can not help their actions when in a state of overwhelm and cannot be 'brought around' by actions or bribes, it has to run its course and the child may well be exhausted afterwards.

@BlankTimes that’s an interesting summary of the difference. Although there is some cross over - I think it’s unfair to say a young tantrumer is really in control / wants to be tantruming - this was definitely more tantrum than meltdown

I know we should stand up to her but after half an hour you really start to wonder if you’ve picked your battle well. Because the starting point is so inconsequential entrenching yourself in the no new packet camp also feels quite petty

My Reception age/ 4 year old still has a lot and it’s exhausting. Just read up on the info posted above about tantrums v meltdowns and they’re definitely tantrums. There’s usually some kind of stand off and it’s definitely around her wanting something/ not wanting to do something - but she escalated into desperate screaming and begging if she’s put on a time out. Have discovered we have to remove her to her room, wait for the screaming to subside, have lots of cuddles and then talk it through. When she’s in a state, you cannot get through to her.

I do wonder when we’ll start getting through to her. She’s articulate generally, but in the moment, shuts down and won’t communicate what’s wrong. I find myself at frequent impasses with her. Like today she had a birthday party - she wanted me to stay but I couldn’t because I had my older children with me. I could see she was shy so suggested we go home and she didn’t have to stay but she started crying. So there we were - I can’t do A but you don’t want B. and it becomes impossible to resolve. Eventually a friend took her in and she was fine.

It’s frequent and exhausting, and I dread the next one. I do wonder about SEN but there’s so many consistently NT behaviours she exhibits so I don’t think it’s strictly that. I think probably she just gets overwhelmed with emotion, is stubborn, and completely shuts down so it’s difficult to logic or reason with her.

Ds2 is almost 5 and yes, screaming tantrums. No additional needs or other issues

@NuffSaidSam

Ime from working in childcare, most 5 year olds don't, some 5 year olds do.

It's like with anything, they mature at different rates. Some 5 year olds are still struggling with their big emotions, others have a little more grasp on them (although often that just means tantrums are replaced with stroppy behaviour!).

Your DH undermining you won't have helped though.

Its normal for older children to tantrum in their safe place so at home but nit at school or childcare.

My 5 year old tantrums mostly when she is tired or hungry or both, especially if something she was then expecting to happen doesn’t. Tantrums are always at home and never at school.

That's interesting Blanktimes. My DD's tantrums read more like meltdowns according to that list. I did wonder about autism when she was younger but she didn't match any of the criteria except the meltdowns.

Hell yes my 12 yo does. Intelligent, eloquent and NT. They're not quite the same but she has always been prone to loosing her shit 🤣

5 is very young and a very transitional age- they're going from being in charge of their own activity direction at preschool or nursery to having to toe the line in reception or year 1. It's understandable that they grasp what control they can.

I'd be a bit pissy if someone else undermined me if I'd decided it was a hill to die on.

We probably have something like this every 2-3 weeks. Child is possibly neurodiverse but not bad enough to diagnose- a lot of sensory processing/seeking stuff going on but bright and social.

By 5yo ds had outgrown tantrums, but then his were never really that spectacular.

Dd is 5 in two weeks. She still regularly displays this behaviour, but we do suspect she is neurologically diverse in some way and they definitely read like meltdowns and not tantrums - she has a lot of sensory issues when stressed. She's the perfect pupil at school, but another story at home. In many other respects she appears very neuro typical - interacts and socialises well, meeting all developmental milestones etc. But she really struggles with emotions and it's noticeable in comparison to her peers. She also builds a lot of routines/ rituals into her day to help her feel in control or calm down.

That’s really interesting @BlankTimes.
My DS is a teenager now but he had frequent loud tantrums when he little probably up to age 5. Tiredness was a big trigger, after school, homework (still wince at those). He is NT, but always had very strong feelings about things, and still isn’t afraid to vocalise them!

@bizboz

That's interesting Blanktimes. My DD's tantrums read more like meltdowns according to that list. I did wonder about autism when she was younger but she didn't match any of the criteria except the meltdowns.

Same here, according to that tantrums here are 'meltdowns'. My 5 year old just gets over-tired occasionally and everything is wrong for no reason, no fixing it haha. Been the same with all 3 of mine and none of them are autistic. As toddlers sometimes tantrums because they wanted something, but often forgot what they wanted haha. But quite often it was an indication they needed a nap or an early night - still is! My brother has asperges and to be honest his looked more like the tantrum but lasted ages, usually in the form of sulking for days about whatever it was that he 'needed'. Same for a few autistic adults my partner works with. So I'm not entirely sure that chart is entirely accurate.

Occasionally. She's more likely to cry because she's overwhelmed or tired. I try to spot the signs of overwhelmed and tiredness and try to keep things easy at those times e.g. asking what she wants for dinner rather than just making something and putting it in front of her, offering for her to watch TV for a bit, not playing games might might wind her up or result in a tantrum. Of course it can't always be avoided and I was say we have big tantrums a few times a month.

Totally normal. Different people have different tolerance levels for stressors but it’s very common at that age. Yes French at home rather than childcare.

Tired. Hungry, Dopamine crash after a ‘no’, stress, not enough sleep, illness, inconsistent boundaries and an emotionally volatile atmosphere can all be causal or maintaining factors. Good to go through the list to see if anything can be changed.

My 5yo has more tantrums now than when he was 2. We have several a month but usually grouped together. Often when he's over tired or is having a stressful time at school.

Full on growling and screaming because it was bedtime and he couldn't finish building the model I'd warned him not to start when giving the 5mins to bed time warning.

A screaming tantrum because his tablet ran out of battery.

Etc.

I can usually anticipate them and understand the motivation behind them. I've no concerns of SEN and most of my mum friends with same age kids have mentioned similar with their kids. Triggers are often different based on what stage their kid is at. As demonstrated above DS is struggling with transitions currently but a few months ago it was like your DD and loss of independence.

Mine definitely still has tantrums. Nearly always when she doesn't get her own way.