To think one 90 degree washes a month is fine?

[LauraAshleyDuvetCover]

I usually do one full wash on 90 degrees every month. Sometimes it's my towels, flannels, bath mat etc, other times it's the kitchen towels, cleaning cloths etc.

This morning, a friend whose washing machine has broken (filled with water) dropped off the towels that were in there when it broke. My flatmate said he hoped I wasn't going to wash them on 90 because it's inefficient and unnecessary. I said I was because it's better for the machine ("bollocks") because it dissolves any powder or conditioner left in the pipes ("it'll dissolve anyway") and kills any bacteria ("the powder will do that"). I said I was, because they've been left damp and smell a bit grim.

I've just been into the kitchen and he's put them on a daily quick wash at 40, and I've no idea what detergent he's used (I was going to put vinegar in because they smell musty and damp).

AIBU to think he's being an arse making his point, and doing the odd wash at 90 (especially to help a friend) really isn't a huge issue?

@Spermysextowel - literally all cottons.

To be honest, my priority when washing is not the life-span of the item but the cleanliness.

This thread definitely gave me stuff to think about so I dug into research and saw this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672060/

Seems that science thinks that "Only an estimated 5% of the household laundering in the USA is done at 60°C or higher, an advised temperature for effectively killing possibly pathogenic bacteria (Munk et al., 2001; Bloomfield et al., 2007; Gerba and Kennedy, 2007). Any lower washing temperature offers survival conditions for bacteria and induces cross-contamination in the laundry. Staphylococcus aureus and S. epidermidis, for example, have been shown to survive laundry programs at 50°C (Munk et al., 2001). A lower washing temperature of 40°C is only sufficient for disinfection when bleaches are used in the detergents (Bloomfield et al., 2007). These bleaches are mainly chlorine and peroxide based, with sodium hypochlorite being most used. They are still commonly added in hospital laundering, contrary to household laundering (Patel et al., 2006). Normal household detergents are developed primarily for removing dirt and stains, not for disinfection. At lower washing temperatures, the bleach activity strongly decreases and becomes insufficient (Ainsworth and Davis, 1989; Davis and Ainsworth, 1989)."

I don't need my clothes to be sterile; I'm not eating them. I'm not washing my clothes at 90⁰C as it would ruin most of them

@PinkSyCo did you miss the part about the flatmate being a high earner who 'works from home in IT, has an electric bike which he charges here and enjoys gaming so is often on his computer at night'?

I'm sure that, even with the extra few pennies run up by the ops unnecessarily extravagant laundry habits, he's getting value for money with their 50/50 split of the electricity bill.

So because he’s earns more than OP he should smile indulgently at her when she uses energy wastefully? Maybe he cares more about the environment than she does, hence the electric bike rather than a car.

Towels on 90
Bedding on 60

Why do you need to practically boil wash your towels when they’ve just been used to dry a clean body?

Staphylococcus aureus and S. epidermidis, for example, have been shown to survive laundry programs at 50°C

Why is this a problem? It doesn't appear that it's making anyone sick.

[quote DeepDown12]@Spermysextowel - literally all cottons.

To be honest, my priority when washing is not the life-span of the item but the cleanliness.

This thread definitely gave me stuff to think about so I dug into research and saw this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672060/

Seems that science thinks that "Only an estimated 5% of the household laundering in the USA is done at 60°C or higher, an advised temperature for effectively killing possibly pathogenic bacteria (Munk et al., 2001; Bloomfield et al., 2007; Gerba and Kennedy, 2007). Any lower washing temperature offers survival conditions for bacteria and induces cross-contamination in the laundry. Staphylococcus aureus and S. epidermidis, for example, have been shown to survive laundry programs at 50°C (Munk et al., 2001). A lower washing temperature of 40°C is only sufficient for disinfection when bleaches are used in the detergents (Bloomfield et al., 2007). These bleaches are mainly chlorine and peroxide based, with sodium hypochlorite being most used. They are still commonly added in hospital laundering, contrary to household laundering (Patel et al., 2006). Normal household detergents are developed primarily for removing dirt and stains, not for disinfection. At lower washing temperatures, the bleach activity strongly decreases and becomes insufficient (Ainsworth and Davis, 1989; Davis and Ainsworth, 1989)."[/quote]
But why does it matter that some bacteria survive on washing if it’s done at 40 degrees? Bacteria is everywhere. Has washing with some bacteria still present ever made anyone ill?

Visually clean laundry (as opposed to hygienically clean) has been shown time and time again to be a vector of disease spread. I'd never wash towels, bedlinen or underwear on anything less than 60 degrees. Damp towels that have been sitting around would be a definite 90 degrees for me. I really don't want to dry my face with a towel that's full of bacteria.... ewwwww

Visually clean laundry (as opposed to hygienically clean) has been shown time and time again to be a vector of disease spread

Source?

@RavingAnnie

I wouldn't wash towels at 90, they go hard. 60 should be enough to kill the bacteria and get the smells out.

However you should be running a 90 maintenance wash (plus cleaning out tray and around seals) about once a month. I do mine with soda crystals in the drum and powder dispenser and vinegar in the fab con bit. Keeps the washing machine clean and gunk free. I can't imagine one wash a month a 90 costs very much.

Your flatmate is also (probably) wrong to put on a quick wash. That often uses more water and electric than the eco wash cycle even though the eco wash is usually significantly longer.

This is exactly what my repair man advised after our machine died. Pipes etc clogged up with undissolved liquid gunk. I do it once a month and do a dishwasher clean at the same time. I would be very annoyed with your " man knows best" flatmate and be telling him to MHOB.

Missing the point but

Why do you put vinegar in? Doesn't it give it a funny smell?

What kind of vinegar and how much?

@ThePoisonousMushroom it says here: Seems that science thinks that "Only an estimated 5% of the household laundering in the USA is done at 60°C or higher, an advised temperature for effectively killing possibly pathogenic bacteria (Munk et al., 2001; Bloomfield et al., 2007; Gerba and Kennedy, 2007).

@TheKeatingFive if you take a look at the para I shared from the article published in scientific magazine Frontiers of Microbiology - it says clearly that household detergents are designed to remove dirt and stains and not to disinfect (kill bacteria) - which implies that visually clean laundry can still have a variety of pathogenic bacteria on it.

which implies that visually clean laundry can still have a variety of pathogenic bacteria on it.

And where's the evidence this makes anyone sick?

I always do my towels on 90 and bed linen on 60. That's weekly.
All other washes between 20 and 40.

@Lightswitch123

Missing the point but

Why do you put vinegar in? Doesn't it give it a funny smell?

What kind of vinegar and how much?

White vinegar, a small glassful. It doesn't smell, I think it probably just rinses out.

I presume it's the change in pH that helps?

@TheKeatingFive

which implies that visually clean laundry can still have a variety of pathogenic bacteria on it.

And where's the evidence this makes anyone sick?

MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is most commonly transmitted by either direct skin-to-skin contact or using shared items, such as towels.

MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) is most commonly transmitted by either direct skin-to-skin contact or using shared items, such as towels.

Is there any evidence it makes people ill is what I keep asking.

Is there any evidence it makes people ill is what I keep asking.

In a home setting

But is MRSA often found in washing in the houses of the general public? I don't think so!

@dementedpixie

But is MRSA often found in washing in the houses of the general public? I don't think so!

About 1% of the population carry asymptomatic MRSA which causes no harm at all to over 99.9% of people (approx 0.8 of 100,000 have an issue with it). But you're as likely to catch it from a handshake as a towel!

@TheKeatingFive

Is there any evidence it makes people ill is what I keep asking.

In a home setting

No.

No

Thanks. Didn't think so.

About 1 in 30 people carry MRSA.

Lots of diseases can be spread by sharing towels eg ringworm, athlete's foot, thrush, E.coli (food poisoning, UTIs, meningitis, pneumonia), molluscum contagiosum, S.aureus (boils, cellulitis, food poisoning, toxic shock syndrome, pneumonia...) and the antibiotic resistant form of S.aureus, MRSA. The NHS recommends washing them at 60C:

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/can-clothes-and-towels-spread-germs/

Tea towels are also "high risk" so should be washed at 60C or ironed or washed with a product that disinfects.

Lots of diseases can be spread by sharing towels eg ringworm, athlete's foot, thrush, E.coli (food poisoning, UTIs, meningitis, pneumonia), molluscum contagiosum, S.aureus (boils, cellulitis, food poisoning, toxic shock syndrome, pneumonia...) and the antibiotic resistant form of S.aureus, MRSA

Actual figures of outbreaks caused by low temperature washing would be helpful.

Speaking as someone who never washes above 40 and hasn't had an issue with any of the above, ever.

You wouldn't get an outbreak caused by low temperature washing alone eg MRSA is spread by skin contact and contaminated objects. If you have an outbreak, some people will catch it from skin contact, some will catch it from contaminated objects. You can't know who caught it where. What we can know is how long a pathogen can live on different types of surfaces and which surfaces have the highest concentration of those those pathogens. Just google.

Here's a study that found 25% of kitchen towels had E.coli to start you off:
www.foodprotection.org/files/food-protection-trends/Sep-Oct-14-Gerba.pdf

I'm not sure why you are doubting the advice of the NHS and CDC that shared towels should be washed at 60C.

I'm not surprised that you haven't had any issues ever washing at 40C. Realistically, you could probably never clean your loo nor your chopping board and not catch anything from them, if you were lucky. I would put towels/tea towels/dish cloths/sponges in a similar category as potential fomites for transmitting disease. You probably would be disgusted by the idea of never cleaning your loo or rinsing your chopping board with only water.

You wouldn't get an outbreak caused by low temperature washing alone eg MRSA is spread by skin contact and contaminated objects. If you have an outbreak, some people will catch it from skin contact, some will catch it from contaminated objects. You can't know who caught it where.

Ok I'll carry on as I'm doing so.

The nhs says plenty of things that I don't worry too much about, outside of direct medical issues. A lot of what it says about nutrition is utter tosh for example.

I would put towels/tea towels/dish cloths/sponges in a similar category as potential fomites for transmitting disease.

And I don't and don't seem to have suffered any ill effects at all. 🤷‍♀️