To think most people have forgotten about Afghanistan rather quickly

[KrispyKremeDream]

Not really intending this as a guilt trip thread. I was just reading about the shooting of the Afghan women’s rights activist Frozan Safi this weekend and it occurred to me that I’ve not seen any discussion on here for weeks now. It was always going to die down and become accepted but it seems a bit sad that it’s disappeared off the radar so quickly.

There’s a hard barrier all the funding has stopped as it can’t go to Taliban

International funding was very much relied upon and the country is running out of food

I just wanted to check figures so a Google came up with

Prior to the Taliban takeover, 80% of the Afghan government's budget was funded by the U.S. and other Western donors. Forty percent of its GDP came from international aid.

There is a resistance though, the National Resistance Front, they will forever try to fight back, they just need the support.

Afghanistan is tribal in nature, they have no real national identity that takes priority and so no matter who is nominally in power, there is always a group resisting. The Taliban was the resistance when the US backed Afghan government ruled. The US backed Afghan government never really ruled all of Afghanistan, just the major cities and a few suburban areas. Over 55 million Afghans in rural areas were still ruled by the Taliban at the height of the US occupation.

“Support” would be selling arms and one lesson we have all learned by now is the selling of arms is profiteering off conflict and only results in more civilian deaths. In addition, to the Afghans foreign support taints the receiver and they are then viewed as “puppets” of the foreign power, especially if they win and end up ruling. There is always a new resistance in the wings waiting for their turn.

I think all we can do is have unlimited asylum for Afghans so that the people who manage to escape have places they can emigrate to legally. Depopulating the area may be the best way to collapse the Taliban.

Yanbu

My friend, who is very politically active, said that on some things you just have to step away and stop reading the news articles otherwise the horror combined with the powerlessness will destroy you, and the current situation in Afghanistan is one of those times. I think sadly she is right.

Obviously if you are in an actual position to have any chance of fighting for individuals out there or for policy change (although that seems impossible) then please please keep fighting, but for the rest of us, it is a truely heartbreaking fact that there really is nothing we can do to help women, girls, families and allies of the West trapped in Afghanistan.

I am currently doing research on it and writing a book about it. Yes, people have moved on. I wouldn't like to speculate but would hazard a guess that this is at least in part due to the fact that the West (US) have essentially got out without caring too much about the aftermath. So I assume that there is plenty of political pressure on the media etc to simply move on. There's also COP26 and a myriad of other things going on internationally to focus on instead. Politicians only give interviews on things they would like to shed light on and highlight, the media will mostly report on things that sell or are 'news' - major Western international f* ups are not high on the agenda. In the actual fact, it was the same after 2014 when the US did a substantial withdrawal of its troops under Obama. Bu yes no one likes to be reminded of a failure....best not think about it

You are not wrong, OP.

However I am aware of a big project by a number of law firms to get judges out of Afghanistan and to safe countries. Many would have imprisoned Taliban fighters before they retook power and are now in danger.

I haven't forgotten what's happening in Afghanistan. Same as I'm aware of what's happening in Yemen and Zimbabwe and Belarus and Xinjiang and Venezuela and Somalia and Haiti and North Korea and I could go on. Sadly for much of the world there isn't much happiness or any peace likely to be found in the near future. Outside of new circumstances (such as UK and US withdrawal from Afghanistan) or another developing story it ceases to be newsworthy and drops off the radar. I feel so helpless, but I'm not sure there's anything I can do about it.

Afghanistan is tribal in nature, they have no real national identity that takes priority and so no matter who is nominally in power, there is always a group resisting. The Taliban was the resistance when the US backed Afghan government ruled. The US backed Afghan government never really ruled all of Afghanistan, just the major cities and a few suburban areas. Over 55 million Afghans in rural areas were still ruled by the Taliban at the height of the US occupation

Absolutely. I have learnt so much from recent Afghani friend. The majority of Afghanis are subsistence farmers, illiterate, lack any education other than religious. They have no knowledge, nor interest, in the outside world, they only know of their current plight. The majority of those whom we hear from are from the cities, better educated, with an understanding of how the rest of the world lives, and what is normal and natural democracy. The Taliban have always had their power base in rural areas, and little or nothing is ever going to change the culture of those areas unless the tribal leaders say so, which in the majority they side with the Taliban.

Talking about it on R4 now

Bit noisy here so not catching all of it

It was always going to drop off quickly, the U.K. and its media does not encourage interest in the world outside . Nor in much else beyond buying shit to be honest.

@Elephantsparade

I used to learn about historical events and wonder how they happened. How other people sat by and let things go on. But as Ive got older Ive realised more and more that most people have minimum power or no power to change things. Then your brain sort of has to compartmentalise it or you go mad.

That’s true, we don’t have much power to change things even in Britain: and women seem to have no power anywhere to change men.

@PickUpAPepper

It was always going to drop off quickly, the U.K. and its media does not encourage interest in the world outside . Nor in much else beyond buying shit to be honest.

Which media do you read / watch / listen to?

Out of interest

Depends. The BBC is the easiest and most common one I watch and listen to. Then i have Sky, Guardian, Economist, occasionally the Telegraph or Times. I look to Al Jazeera for overseas news most often, or occasionally a couple of European ones. Plus the Big Issue, which shows life on the other side.

I’ve found R4 pretty good if you get the right programme - although a bit short sometimes could be more in depth

But they are still talking about Afghanistan which is good

What can you do to help. There is a long list actually:
Ask you local MP about
1- how they might be supporting the Afghans who are here in U.K.?
2 - Ask them also how they shall vote on the new nationalities and borders bill. Because part of this move has deportation to afghanistan deemed as safe www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/afghan-asylum-deportation-guidance-afghanistan-home-office-b1933921.html?amp and the relevant pdf is on the job.Uk website
3 - ask them to remove the cap on the ACRS programme so they can help women and girls at risk escape

4 - donate to local charities helping resettle Afghans in uk

5 - volunteer any time you have to help. I am helping with conversational English practice some bbc afghanistan journalists

6 - update your information as someone suggested using alternate media/news outlets eg Afghan = person, Afghani = currency

I could go on. But I am raging and I don't wish to sound angry here, apologies if I do. It's a nightmare getting people out, find safe houses and getting daily pics of violence and abuse sent out to me by those who are stuck there. I feel helpless but can't look away.

It’s horrific, the stuff nightmares are made from, but what can you do? If I could cook a huge meal for a hungry family right now I’d do it and give it to them, but I can’t, I can’t do anything that will actually help.

I read the 'hell on earth' article the other day. It's a horrendous situation for those poor people, I can't even imagine.

Thanks.

That's a very good point re the new Nationality and Borders Bill.

A lot of people won't even have heard about this, so here's a briefing from the Refugee Council in July this year:

www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/latest/news/nationality-borders-bill-what-we-learnt-from-the-second-reading/

@KrispyKremeDream is there anything we can actually do? I ask that as a genuine question, I'm not being facetious

I can’t cope with reading more about little girls being sold to feed their brothers. Just can’t cope. I have three daughters and would rather we all die then sell them into what will only be a life of sexual abuse.

More explanation of the Nationality and Borders Bill. This is a large topic, of course, and I don't want to derail the thread, but it does affect Afghan asylum seekers, including those who got out before the US/UK troop withdrawal.

The Nationality and Borders Bill 2021: From Empty Threats to Further Erosion of the Right to Seek Asylum
www.law.ox.ac.uk/research-subject-groups/centre-criminology/centreborder-criminologies/blog/2021/07/nationality-and

The new Nationality and Borders Bill is primarily oriented to sending a message to the British public that Priti Patel is tough on illegal immigration. Within the context of that broader aim of appearing tough on unwanted migrants, the Bill contains both unworkable plans which will likely not be realised, and workable plans which will likely happen. While it is clear that refugees will in all cases be the losers, disentangling the PR aspects from the genuinely dangerous aspects is going to be important for those seeking to challenge the Bill.

First, the context. Numbers of asylum applications are historically low, particularly in light of the pandemic. Successive rounds of new legislation since the early 2000s have made getting to the UK very difficult. Success for those in applying for asylum is ever more challenging, while people’s everyday life while awaiting a decision in their case is increasingly characterised by impoverishment and marginalisation. The asylum system is slow, opaque, under-resourced, and hostile to the people that it is designed to support. It takes a long time to decide cases and the initial decisions are often bad: 43% overturned on appeal. In other words: not that many people are arriving, those who do arrive have to deal with an inefficient and opaque bureaucracy within a system designed to limit success, and yet still most have such compelling cases that they are given refugee status.

Personally, I don’t think it’s a case of forgotten about it. I certainly haven’t and was talking to my dd about it yesterday. I think it’s more a case of there’s absolutely nothing we can do. Feeling pretty helpless too, that there’s nothing we can do.

I agree, although I don’t think its been accepted.

YANBU. It's all but disappeared from the news.

Thank you rollercoastermum for your input.