Training as a solicitor / working full time as a mum

[Motherofking]

I have just completed my Masters in Law, I have done a few vacations schemes and opens days and i am planning to apply for training contracts. I have a 1 and a half year old so no plans to look for training contracts in city law firms , Just international law firms, national and regional firms which offer a better life work balance. Can someone give me tips on how i can manage a full time job and be a full time mum . I will put my son in nursery but i want us to spend alot of time together, i dont want to spend the only hours i have at home cleaning or cooking id rather spend it with him ?

And another question, alot of training contracts give you the job two / three years in advance, For example if i get the job in 2022 my start date will be 2024 or 2025. Would it be a bad idea to get pregnant and have a baby within that gap. I really want another baby especially because once i start my career i dont want to have any more babies. I just want to keep working until i am established enough within my career without any breaks or interruptions.

@Bluntness100

I presume you have done the LLM which is a law conversion course

No it is not 😂

Erm yes that what is it. It is in theory the PGDL top up which makes it the LLM. Thereby a law conversion course. The content done by PGDL students and LLM students is the same however the difference is on the LLM course you study the same content to a masters level . Meaning that it was required to study academic and scholarly content which is what makes it a masters. Our classes were separate and some of our exams were different due to this . I hope this makes further sense .

@Chocolatetrifle

Yes *@Motherofking* exactly. You will know which area you will specialise in after you have completed your training contract.

You need to get your foot in a door so to speak. If you are ready to start working, update your CV and apply, apply, apply to lots of firms in your area. Think about commuting times too and how it will fit in with your little one. Draft a good, detailed covering letter explaining why you wish to work for that firm, not a generic letter. Good luck and determination and hard work will get your there. Most firms will sponsor the LPC now and give you a day to study. You need to look in the Law Gazette for vacancies too. Do you know anybody currently working in a law firm? Can they give you work experience or assist with an application?

Thank you i will do this . The people that i know working in firms are trainees themselves. But maybe i can have a word with them and see what they offer

@Bluntness100

Do you realise how ignorant you're coming across?

Seriously? You’re the one attacking and insulting. Calm down before I start reporting your personal attacks.

I assume you reported @kirnm on here . This person gave such valuable insight on this thread and even posted a website on here that i can go to. I dont think i can see any of their comments anymore and the website that would have helped me. This is sad when you have spent the whole time on here being nasty and belittling, whereas Kirnm has been very helpful in this thread

@Inmypjsagain

I work in a “regional” firm- my trainee wage wasn’t great. My official hours were 9-5:30 but realistically you’d be in at 7am and leave at 7/8pm. There were only a handful of occasions where I’d stay beyond 9pm though. This wasn’t corporate work- all of my seats were similar working hours, this includes employment law.

I wouldn’t say that as a trainee it was family friendly at all, I remember asking my boss if I could leave at 6:30pm on a Friday so that I could catch my train up to my bf’s house for his birthday! I can’t imagine how it would have worked with childcare, if I’m honest I think I’d have been quite grumpy if we were staying back to work with one person leaving every day at 5:30. I can’t think of any solicitors who’d leave at 5:30 everyday, though I’m sure some must have done.

I’m currently on maternity leave and am already wondering how I’m going to manage back at work
as I personally don’t think it’s family friendly (I thought I’d be okay with sending my baby to nursery but I underestimated how much I’d enjoy being a mum!) and am looking at other jobs I could do instead.

I’d have thought a high street firm but might be a good place to start as a paralegal, see if they would support you to follow the SQE route even if you need to self fund. Good luck!

Thank you for your insight . I guess i assumed like some of the posters on here that regional firms would be family friendly but it is a very different reading about firms online v actually speaking to someone who has worked in one

@lentilsforever ' its like watching a car crash in slow motion'

This is what you said . Very funny . I will make sure to come on here to update you guys on what happens within my career. The only car crash in slow motion will be your hating bitter selves

@wewereliars

OP people who want to practice employment law do not talk about working in " global law firms" and why on earth would they? Employment law is different in every country.

"Global" law firms are covering corporate, banking, finance, international transactions, shipping etc which span jurisdictions.

What nonsense. Most global law firms have employment teams, with lawyers qualified in the relevant jurisdiction. Or do you think banking, shipping, corporate law is the same in every jurisdiction?

@SeasonFinale Thank you . I was considering self sponsoring the SQE route if i am not able to find a sponsor. And yes my partner is in the picture and i have family who live nearby that can help with picking up our son

@Motherofking I meant what difference in culture (or location) there is between a Magic Circle firm and a "global law firm"? Most global law firms are in the City and have the same culture as Magic Circle firms

@Cardboardeaux I thought the same, Im glad you said it . I think certain people on this thread are finding ways to disagree with every little thing i am saying even when its true . Yes i am naive in some aspects as i would have not written this post if i knew everything , but i am not completely ignorant so i dont have to be belittled everytime i say something that i have knowledge on .

[quote XelaM]@Motherofking I meant what difference in culture (or location) there is between a Magic Circle firm and a "global law firm"? Most global law firms are in the City and have the same culture as Magic Circle firms[/quote]
I think i need to do more research . But i had been on the legal cheek website and some of the global firms i typed in there seemed to have a better work life balance compared to the magic circle firm. Not all of them , but there were some

To those commenting on the OPs use of language and grammar, it's pretty obvious that English is not the OPs first language and I think it's very cruel to comment on her writing skills.

Remember also that many global firms have UK offices outside London, eg Pinsents, DLA, Eversheds etc

@wewereliars

I am not saying there are no firms which have employment arms and international work too. But in an interview, a prospective fee earner for am employment position is not likely to wax lyrical about wanting to work in a global law firm. And if they did, eyebrows would probably be raised. Even if only metaphorically.

But you do realize that even though employment law is what i would like to do , the type of firm i choose to do it in will depend on if i feel like the firm is right for me . So if that does happen to be a global firm what is wrong with that ?

One of my trainees went on to become a very successful employment lawyer. He was previously in HR though so had a background for employment law. He left us because we didn't have a big enough employment practice and went in-house to a massive international corporation and is actually heading their European Employment Department (involves a lot of sacking people properly ). He's extremely well-paid.

@Autumndays123

To those commenting on the OPs use of language and grammar, it's pretty obvious that English is not the OPs first language and I think it's very cruel to comment on her writing skills.

Thank you , English is not my first language. I have studied English academically so i am able to write properly when i need to , as i have in the past for my essays and job applications . However when writing very quickly replying to all these comments plus doing multiple things in real life its harder to me to write perfectly. But I can do it without distractions when needed .

@wewereliars
Huge ignorance of global employment law here!

Many companies will look to the London office of a global law firm to give them multi jurisdictional employment law advice. Countless law firms offer this now. They liaise with their colleagues in other jurisdictions and/or in partner law firms. Lawyers in U.K. firms who can do this properly and be a one stop shop for clients in the employment sphere are worth their weight in gold. It’s a hugely difficult skill to take and understand global advice and turn into consistent, coherent, commercial advisee. I’d be more worried if a trainee wasn’t talking global in an interview of any big law firm!

Just look at the number of in house employment counsel jobs which are multi jurisdictional but only require you to be U.K. qualified. It’s a much sought after skill.

[quote Jangle33]@wewereliars
Huge ignorance of global employment law here!

Many companies will look to the London office of a global law firm to give them multi jurisdictional employment law advice. Countless law firms offer this now. They liaise with their colleagues in other jurisdictions and/or in partner law firms. Lawyers in U.K. firms who can do this properly and be a one stop shop for clients in the employment sphere are worth their weight in gold. It’s a hugely difficult skill to take and understand global advice and turn into consistent, coherent, commercial advisee. I’d be more worried if a trainee wasn’t talking global in an interview of any big law firm!

Just look at the number of in house employment counsel jobs which are multi jurisdictional but only require you to be U.K. qualified. It’s a much sought after skill.[/quote]
This!!! i love when people actually know what they are talking about before they comment

Hello OP I have nothing of value to advise here except to say ignore the haters, MN has this but is also a goldmine of advise
Also a certain poster commenting on threads which they have no knowledge of. Including saying that the Harry Potter thread was all made up... if you have nothing useful to add then why comment??

*advice
And good luck with your law career!

@Motherofking I’m sure it varies depending on the firm and the culture. I suppose your hours will largely be driven by your workflow, if you have your own caseload and billing target then you do the hours to try and meet/exceed the targets and keep clients happy. Friends in city firms seem less bothered by this, of course they have targets but they time record on larger deals that they’re working on and are not in charge of, so don’t seem to have any concerns whether they’ll meet their targets as there’s always plenty of work allocated to them by the partner- that’ll likely change as they get more senior though. That reminds me, pre covid world we’d do regular networking events that were out of hours (If you were lucky you might get a lunch but majority were evening events.) I had a TC offer at a city firm which would have commenced 2 years after the TC I took, I didn’t take it despite it being more money because I thought I didn’t want the hours. I do wonder about that now, would the hours have been that much worse… it seems to me that all the solicitors I know work long hours, from high street to magic circle, so you may as well be getting paid well for it 🤷🏼‍♀️ I hope you find somewhere with the right culture for you and that it all works out

Jangle33 You are missing the point of the thread entirely, so of course the OP agrees with you. Birds of a feather

[quote XelaM]@Motherofking I meant what difference in culture (or location) there is between a Magic Circle firm and a "global law firm"? Most global law firms are in the City and have the same culture as Magic Circle firms[/quote]
Loads of global firms have offices outside London. CMS McKenna, Kennedy's, DLA Piper, Dentons, Clyde & Co, Eversheds etc.

I’m a solicitor at a large regional firm (top 50). I’m relatively senior and work in a niche and technical practice area which happens to be difficult to hire into at the moment. This has given me a lot more flexibility in setting the terms on which I work than some of my colleagues in other departments. I can often leave at 5.30 though quite often end up working once my toddler is in bed. Overall the hours aren’t ridiculous and I very rarely work late into the night or at weekends. I haven’t often had to work late nights since qualification though did spend a year doing some brutal additional professional exams.

The difficulty for you will be getting through the training contract stage and in particular the corporate and litigation type seats. Trainee hours vary a lot at my firm between practice areas and depending on what you are assigned to but it’s the unpredictability which would be hardest to manage with small children. There are times where trainees will need to work late into the night or even the whole night on something urgent and it would be difficult to walk away in the middle of a deal due to childcare issues. My firm markets itself as family friendly and I have come across a few trainees with children - the firm certainly wouldn’t want to be seen to discriminate against women with children. But the reality is that firms depend on trainees to do a lot of time consuming and often urgent work and that the training contract is a time when you’re trying to prove yourself and learn a lot. That generally translates to long hours.

In terms of practical advice I would say that if you really want to be a solicitor consider a practice area where there is lots of demand and which is going to be manageable long term. You clearly need to like the work too but I know so many solicitors who were passionate about e.g commercial litigation but couldn’t make it work alongside a family. Employment is probably ok hours wise at most regional firms but in my experience quite competitive to qualify into and most firms won’t be very excited about a potential trainee saying they’re interested in it because they know they can fill positions there easily.

I wouldn’t personally go for a high street firm in your position unless you really want to do the type of work they do. It doesn’t guarantee low stress and shorter hours and it doesn’t pay well. Crucially it doesn’t pay well enough to outsource bits of your life e.g cleaner, which is how most solicitors with children make it work.

@Chessie678 Thank you that was very insightful. Could you offer suggestions on what practice areas are high in demand? Im assuming that would be crime and/ or immigration ?

[quote Motherofking]@Chessie678 Thank you that was very insightful. Could you offer suggestions on what practice areas are high in demand? Im assuming that would be crime and/ or immigration ?[/quote]
Construction and professional negligence. (Based on my experience anyway).