To feel actively discouraged from flying abroad

[Timetable99]

Trying to organise a trip on a budget to see the Christmas markets in Germany/Austria and all I'm finding are flights presumably for business travellers - either early morning (meaning it's too early for us to get to the airport using public transport, and we don't have a car) or late in the evening (which means we'll arrive in the city around 11pm, which isn't ideal as we'll miss a whole day of our trip). Plus the baggage costs are stupidly high...

Has anyone else noticed that afternoon flights seem to be in really short supply right now, and those that are running are very expensive? Obviously I know that the airlines would have put fewer on since Covid, but I'm finding it almost impossible to book flights within our usual budget of under £150 each.

Budget flights have been this way for years IME. Like others I stay in a budget hotel near the airport for early departures/late arrivals.
I don't understand what you mean when you say you'd miss a day of your trip by not arriving until 11pm. Your trip starts when you arrive in the country, surely? And then you just plan accordingly for the rest of the time.
Besides, I quite like arriving at night. There's nothing better than waking up in a new place, all ready for a day of exploring. Wonder when I'll get the chance to do that again?!!

You're wanting to do a trip to the Christmas markets, see friends in both Germany and Austria, go skiing, have time to experience the language and culture and you are time restricted and on a budget if £150pp?

Sorry but you are dreaming.

Forget the eco bleaters. But train travel on the continent is generally a lot more pleasant than the UK.
We're actually going by train on our next city European city break but not for 'green' reasons it's just a more relaxed way to travel.

I'm assuming it's £150 budget for the flights (which seems reasonable to me) not for the whole trip!

I recently took an emergency flight to Europe and was shocked to see how empty Liverpool airport was compared to my many previous trips and this was for an 8.00am flight... I think airlines are just doing their most profitable routes and times... Its the way it is unfortunately - but you seem to have had some good suggestions re. train or airport hotel instead...
Interestingly my return from Warsaw was heaving - the airport was as packed as on previous trips... Found that surprising...

Budget and cheaper flights have always been early morning or late evening, for as long as I can remember. Least they now tend to go to main airports now, rather than ones miles away!

And to be fair, for a weekend those flights can be ideal - leave late Friday evening after work (or really early morning Saturday) and come home late Sunday night - get the whole weekend away. Ideal!

If the budget of £150 is just for flights then there's no reason the OP should struggle to find them to Germany!

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

Just be wary of COVID infection rates shooting up across Europe; particularly in those areas you want to visit.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59160525

Also agree that if you really want to go, try trains instead of flying. Budget airports are often outside main city centres and they obviously cost more at more 'convenient' times.

PS: Train services abroad are generally much better than in the UK!

Quoted from the article you linked: "The incidence rate per 100,000 people is now higher than it was in April, at 169,9, but well below the level in the UK"

OP is better off going there than staying at home...

Whereabouts are you hoping to go? There is a night train from Brussels to Vienna 3 times a week with various stop offs.

@Fritilleries

Have you heard of this thing called climate change? A single flight produces as much carbon as you do in a lifetime.

I think you mean a single short haul flight produces as much carbon dioxide as 'some people' (ie those in Somalia or Uganda according The Guardian) do in a year (not a lifetime) - so rather different from what you're suggesting.

Have you heard of this thing called not making 'facts' up to try and make a point?

When we have an early flight from Gatwick we spend the night at the on site Premier Inn OP.

YANBU

I was looking for flights recently to visit close family I haven’t seen since before the pandemic. It used to be an hours flight from my local airport to their local airport. Now it’s an hours train to a different airport, overnight stay for super early flight, 4 hour train at the other side. Same in reverse to get home. Costing four or five times in total what a direct flight would cost.

Ferry is also extremely time consuming and expensive by the time I get to and from the ports , plus I get seasick so not keen on that option anyway.

Also worth noting that Austria may not accept your vaccine status if you had your second jab a long time ago. Apparently there is some issue with boosters not being recorded

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

Just be wary of COVID infection rates shooting up across Europe; particularly in those areas you want to visit.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59160525

Also agree that if you really want to go, try trains instead of flying. Budget airports are often outside main city centres and they obviously cost more at more 'convenient' times.

PS: Train services abroad are generally much better than in the UK!

The rate in the UK is still higher though.

The title is misleading, the WHO means Europe as a continent, so including the UK, but the average BBC reader will understand Europe as EU so excluding the UK, and add to that the fact the UK is never mentioned in the article… it focusses on Russia/Ukraine when actually the UK has a higher death rate…

I think the main problem at the moment, from looking at ski forums, is that the NHS app vacxine qr codes aren't yet being accepted by the EU covid passport app. So many barriers to going!
Yes I was hoping for less than 150pp for return flights, but unless I book an early morning one it's not looking like a goer.

@Drumshambo

Looks like you'll have to factor in an overnight hotel op. Oh and ignore the eco warriors. Most of them will have more than one child, drive a car and Eat meat and dairy.They like to suck the life out of any happy threads about holidays😃

Not much of a surprise on a forum called 'mums'net!

@Timetable99

I think the main problem at the moment, from looking at ski forums, is that the NHS app vacxine qr codes aren't yet being accepted by the EU covid passport app. So many barriers to going! Yes I was hoping for less than 150pp for return flights, but unless I book an early morning one it's not looking like a goer.

I've been to Germany recently and just showed my NHS vaccine passport where it was requested (which was most places). I wasn't refused entry anywhere. Not sure how you can possibly combine Germany and Austria in one weekend unless you go to Munich or thereabouts, but even then you'd spent most of your time travelling.

I'm not looking to go for a weekend; DP and I have booked more than a week off work mid-Dec. Even flying out on a Monday, returning the next Sunday (cheapest days possible) plus one bag in the hold, is ~£400 for the both of us.

The 35 years to extinction thing cuts both ways. While it shows how desperate the situation is, it also rather serves as an encouragement to get on and enjoy the world while you can. Individual holidaymakers cannot turn the climate emergency around and if it really is as bleak as it appears there seems little point in not making the best of it now.

Not saying we should all be flying, but there is a major disincentive to individuals giving up trips when others don’t and we aren’t doing enough overall.

I heard the special Eurostar ski trains are back on this winter? Don’t know which bit of the Alps they go to though.

The 35 years to extinction thing cuts both ways
Can’t find much info online for this claim?

A pp mentioned 35 years to extinction (and said the op needed to read the room). Or something along those lines, I may have got the precise phrasing wrong.

"We have 35 years until extinction and you’re trying to garner sympathy online about not being able to hop on a plane to go to a market. Honestly read the room".
Might as well live a little before we go then?
Sadly, the OP getting taking a flight to Europe isn't going to make any difference either way to climate change - the plane is flying anyway, with or without her.

Most people prefer the early morning flights flying out and the late ones flying back. You get more time there. There are fewer flights overall so the airlines will stick on the most popular ones. Also, airlines pay lower fees to the airport for flying stupidly early in the morning.

35 years to extinction? where has that come from?