Owen Paterson

[Francescaisstressed]

Political parties aside, surely Owen Patterson avoiding suspension and the Tory party changing the rules for the mates goes against the very core of democracy?

When the people in power can bend the rules when they seee fit, and have noone to hold them to account I find it incredibly troubling.

That seat has been Tory since 1832, no non-Tory is ever going to win there. An independent could have won a recall election, if Paterson stood. If Paterson didn't stand, he'd have left parliament anyway.

Starmer should be all over this, he should be absolutely annihilating johnson at question time.
It was his job, after all.
He gets going, gets on a roll with a good point and then

Sits down.

Fucking own it. Stand up and keep going until every person knows what lying scum bags these are. He’s doing their job for them.

@HarrietsChariot

Seems fair enough to me, effectively Parliament is a workplace and if you are sanctioned or disciplined in any other workplace you have the right of appeal - if you are not allowed to appeal, the sanction will usually be automatically ruled invalid.

Most people who are up in arms about this won't have heard of this guy until yesterday, I certainly hadn't. He may well be guilty of what he's accused of doing, but that doesn't mean he should not have the right to appeal against the decision.

Yes it looks bad that the Tories have decided to do this now, but it also reflects badly on the opposition that they are so opposed to justice being done. If Labour want there to be no right of appeal in one workplace, what's to stop them stripping away the rights and employment standards of workers generally, as they did during the Blair/Brown years?

Ironically this Tory mess suggests the Tories are more in favour of workers' rights than Labour, which goes against what I'd traditionally expect.

Hahaha nice try!

This episode really does not reflect badly on anyone but the corrupt Tories.

I read the story about his wife last night, terrible business, and I feel desperately sad for his family, but you have to separate the two and the fact was he was taking cash for questions and influence, and that has always been a complete no, no and punishable , its disgraceful the Torys are totally inventing ways of getting around any laws or standards that don't suit them and the MPs who voted for this are a disgrace, well done to the Torys who voted against or abstained

@rrhuth

That seat has been Tory since 1832, no non-Tory is ever going to win there. An independent could have won a recall election, if Paterson stood. If Paterson didn't stand, he'd have left parliament anyway.

Fair points, well made.

I was seeking to highlight just how Tory his seat is though - in our crazy electoral system. Having seats that haven't changed hands since they were created (on either side) promotes corruption as the incumbents start to feel untouchable - and this case is proof.

We need a new system.

I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that the UK and only one other country has first past the post? We need change.

the incumbents start to feel untouchable - and this case is proof this case is proof that the UK system is open to blatant abuse by a corrupt executive - but without last night's amendment Paterson would have had a consequence.

Unfortunately the current Tory government is corrupt.

With a majority of 80 and pretty much all of the Tory MPs unwilling to vote against their party, anything and everything gets through. Lots of MPs today saying how "uncomfortable" it makes them feel. Yet...they go along with it anyway.

@rrhuth

the incumbents start to feel untouchable - and this case is proof this case is proof that the UK system is open to blatant abuse by a corrupt executive - but without last night's amendment Paterson would have had a consequence.

Unfortunately the current Tory government is corrupt.

I fully agree

Having just read that his wife took her own life because of the scandal, just read that he said he would 'do it all again'. How lovely.

There’s a few that haven’t voted? Why might that be?

@Iggly

We need a new system.

I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that the UK and only one other country has first past the post? We need change.

We absolutely do - we require serious modernisation to our crappy unwritten constitution, our electoral system and quite a few other areas where we are badly lagging behind decent modern standards.

I have read all 173 pages of the report and it seemed to me he was playing the system from the start, with delays etc. The reason that his witnesses were not interviewed was that what they said didn't make any difference to the outcome.
When the matter went against him he said that the enquiry had been a factor in the suicide of his wife, giving examples of the comments he said she had made about it. Very strange then that in newspaper articles at the time of her death he is quoted as saying he didn't know why she had done it and she was not depressed at the time, then putting it down to long Covid.
His constituents do not think highly of him as an MP, or so The Guardian reports.

@EvilPea

There’s a few that haven’t voted? Why might that be?

Quite a few abstained either because they're spineless Tories or weren't actually there. Starmer has covid of course so wasn't there.

[quote DuncinToffee]Yesterdays voting record

votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1124#ayes[/quote]
Mine voted Aye, no surprise there. This is the most corrupt government of my life time.

@EvilPea

There’s a few that haven’t voted? Why might that be?

It's a cowards way of saying they didn't agree without saying it. At least one abstainer has lost her PPS job - oddly she doesn't seem to have been allowed an appeal........

@ExConstance

I have read all 173 pages of the report and it seemed to me he was playing the system from the start, with delays etc. The reason that his witnesses were not interviewed was that what they said didn't make any difference to the outcome. When the matter went against him he said that the enquiry had been a factor in the suicide of his wife, giving examples of the comments he said she had made about it. Very strange then that in newspaper articles at the time of her death he is quoted as saying he didn't know why she had done it and she was not depressed at the time, then putting it down to long Covid. His constituents do not think highly of him as an MP, or so The Guardian reports.

Good points - his insistence on a system where there are witness and cross examination etc is interesting - not many jobs would permit that - you'd have to go to Tribunal - and you can only do that if you have >2 years service of course (unless you're claiming discrimination).

The regulator made the point that it is not a judicial system.

He did an interview (a very moving one) about his wife’s suicide a few months ago. In that he was very clear that he had absolutely no idea why she’d taken her own life, that they had no idea she was depressed or anxious etc so seems strange he suddenly does know.

@HarrietsChariot I remember him from such events as being a fringe climate change denier while Environment Secretary in 2014 and sneering at activists when he got sacked. Of course now we know any public words of his may have been bought and paid for and we shouldn't attend to a word he says.

@EvilPea

There’s a few that haven’t voted? Why might that be?

It states this on the website

The following Members did not have a vote recorded and were not tellers. This can be due to a number of reasons; The Speaker and deputies cannot vote because of the impartiality of the chair, and Sinn Féin Members have an absentionist policy. A Member may wish to abstain, or have a procedural reason for not voting. Members can be absent carrying out constituency or ministerial business, or be unable to attend for other reasons.

Apparently 80 Tory MP's who were there in person abstained.

Others were paired
Pairing is an arrangement between two MPs of opposing parties to not vote in a particular division. This enables an MP to be absent without affecting the result of the vote as they effectively cancel each other out. Pairing is an informal arrangement which is not recognised by the House of Commons but must be registered with the Whips. Pairing is not allowed in divisions of great political importance.

@EvilPea

Starmer should be all over this, he should be absolutely annihilating johnson at question time. It was his job, after all. He gets going, gets on a roll with a good point and then

Sits down.

Fucking own it. Stand up and keep going until every person knows what lying scum bags these are. He’s doing their job for them.

I disagree. Starmer has to be careful not to become a one trick pony. Considering the vast amount of Troy sleaze and corruption, he could go on all day along - but he needs to strike a balance - if corruption and lies alone could sink the Tories we wouldn't have a Tory government.

[quote PermanentTemporary]@HarrietsChariot I remember him from such events as being a fringe climate change denier while Environment Secretary in 2014 and sneering at activists when he got sacked. Of course now we know any public words of his may have been bought and paid for and we shouldn't attend to a word he says.[/quote]
I remember him from when Carrie Johnson (Nee Symonds) was his special advisor.

@PermanentTemporary

Please can we STOP blaming a man for his wife’s suicide. I am telling you now there are fewer more painful experiences than to lose a family member that way. To say it was anyone's 'fault' including the person who took their own life is to misunderstand and misrepresent something very deeply traumatic. He may have brought it up but its still not OK.

Concentrate on his professional responsibilities to us. The way he should have done.

He is the one who has cynically used his wife's suicide to weasel himself out of a sticky situation. When she first died he said there was no reason he could think of as to why she'd take her life. Then once he could see he could use her death to his advantage, he suddenly decided that the investigation into his corruption is the reason. Yes, Owen, all crooks should be let off scot free in case it causes them or their family distress. Or maybe, just maybe, don't be a corrupt shitstain?

Absolutely foul man.

At least one abstainer has lost her PPS job - oddly she doesn't seem to have been allowed an appeal........

Neither was Sonia Khan, the spad peremptorily marched out of by Dominic Cummings because he alleged she had leaked something. She denied this, and anyway Cummings did not have the power to sack spads.

She had to bring an Employment Tribunal case (the government settled just before it – with taxpayers' money, of course).

But this has brought to my attention that on this occasion too, when the rules didn't suit him, Johnson changed them to fit.

Special adviser sacked by Dominic Cummings to receive payoff
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff

At the time of Khan’s dismissal last September, the terms of employment for special advisers made it clear that only the prime minister had the power to sack them. This was changed after Khan left, giving Cummings ultimate “responsibility for disciplinary matters”.
[...]
There were no other witnesses to Khan’s sacking by Cummings, who spoke to her in an office in Downing Street close to the prime minister’s. In a meeting days after Khan’s departure with Johnson’s team of special advisers – known as spads – Cummings is said to have remarked: “If you don’t like how I run things, there’s the door.”