Why schools do this!!?

[FedUpOfYetAnotherCold]

AIBU to wonder why children in primary school are taught 'head, shoulders, knees and toes' in French, can tell the difference between metamorphic, sedimentary and ignious rocks, can trace a stone age picture, can create great models of the tower of London, and learn (and promptly forget) all about the Victorians, Romans etc... but...

Quite a few can't swim 25m by end of primary (a skill which could save their life), many barely know what the term 'mental health' means - let alone know how to manage their own or support others with MH difficulties. Most state primary kids are not given access to decent sports provision to support future athletic dreams, better manage in-school behaviour, and promote healthy lifestyle and reduce obesity, and very few kids are supported to learn key life skills. (I'm focussing on primary here - but we also need more life skills like MH and budgeting and cooking etc... taught in secondary)..

Surely we need more teaching in schools on mental health, life skills and better access to sports and teaching which will lead to physically and mentally healthy adults of the future.

When my children finish primary I'd like them to be able to read, write and do basic maths. But in terms of the rest of the teaching - surely we now need to re-evaluate how much emphasis we place on teaching less vital skills such as French (if a language is deemed important why not Chinese, Spanish or Arabic, or something more useful in this current global village) which could be learnt later if desired?

AIBU?

@MintJulia

Perhaps, OP, the answer is to support the parents instead.

Parenting classes, basic cooking classes etc.

Absolutely and in Glasgow anyone between 5 and 18 can swim for free in the council run swimming pools. Investment needs to go beyond the schools themselves.

Why is it up to schools instead of parents to teach kids how to swim, look after their health, budget, cook, have confidence speaking on the phone, clean their own teeth etc. They are life skills you teach your own kids.

1. You cannot and should not outsource the majority of your child’s pastoral and holistic upbringing to another agency. That’s your job as a parent. The state also has no interest in doing things that quite obviously fall comfortably in the realm of what the job of a parent is.

2. Teachers are already working an average of 20 hours unpaid and uncontracted time a week. They barely have time to see their own kids let alone want to bring up other people’s kids regarding things that are outside their jurisdiction.

3. How many billions and billions of pounds do you think schools have lying around to do tailored sports and music courses for each individual child, to do hours of lessons in life skills? Kids barely pay attention as it is. Why on Earth would they pay attention to lessons about mortgage rates, budgeting and studying utility bills? What would you take out of the timetable to fit it in? Maths? English? Science? Kids are already underachieving in these areas due to a prevalent culture of no work ethic, bad behaviour, anti-intellectualism sentiment and the country’s antagonism towards the value of education which you see in barely any other country.

@ancientgran

Having run a payroll for a large company I think it would be really helpful if children were taught about NI, income tax and pensions plus their rights to things like SSP.

It would only help if they were interested enough to listen in the first place and remember it later. Which is unlikely. Some things you just learn when you need them.

My experience as a parent is that the schools I chose wanted my kids to be happy so they had boundaries and expectations that mean my kids can bond well with their peers as well as staff. This goes a long way towards being happy.

This was balanced with a broad curriculum which helped them get ready for secondary. My children didn't pick art or dt for GCSE or above but some of the kids that made that model Anderson shelter did. Those kids are the future product designers and engineers that we need.

While schools dont direct teach children how to write CVs or fill in application forms, the skills needed to do both of these are taught in school.
If youve taken almost any test, you have been taught how to read and understand questions, and answer what is being asked...which is basically the premise of an application form.

Schools do teach different styles of writing (persuasive, factual etc) along with grammar and spelling...so all the person needs is a template which can easily be accessed online...which most school also have.

There are so many transferrable skills which are taught without spoonfeeding every eventuality.

Head, shoulders, knees and toes in French teaching coordination, multi-tasking and French... all three things can be used in other circumstances.
Learning the children of monarchs teaches memory and the ability to structure timelines in your mind.
I'm sure there are many more benefits but these are just what spring to mind

Teach what about mental health? If anything it should be taught that sometimes feeling anxious is fine, feeling down sometimes is normal too, and we don't need a label for everything. The amount of people who now proclaim they have anxiety, for example, because they feel anxious before a big event or whatever is annoying as it minimises it.

Why do schools do this?

Schools, in general, follow a national curriculum determined by our Governments. They have little choice. You are aiming much if your annoyance at the wrong people.

I can still remember being taught all about the Victorians, Romans, Stone Age, etc. I found it fascinating and it sparked a life long love of history.

My DC had swimming lessons at school, although my view is that this is a life skill parents should take responsibility for. They had cookery lessons at school but there weren't particularly interested. However now they're older, they regularly cook at home (they use the internet and follow recipes).

I believe things like healthy eating, being kind, etc are taught in primaries aren't they?

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. My primary dc can swim 25m (quite a few schools have their own 25 m pools round here) and they definitely know about mental health although they seem to think than being anxious means they have anxiety and being angry equals anger issues rather than seeing these as normal emotions that we all feel but have to control.

I agree OP especially with the swimming - but MN is notoriously harsh on school swimming lessons. It IS an important life skill and saves lives and many parents can not afford it.

Many many kids can't even read before they leave state primary school and their family lives are shocking so yes I absolute agree much could be done to help these kids learn valuable life skills.

MN is weird because apparently every one hates private schools as state schools are better. Yet if you raise swimming lessons/dance, any of the arts which actually do enhance children's lives then you are lambasted for taking up precious funds from underfunded schools that are already struggling.

And I do not understand the hatred for school swimming lessons ( I spent many years as a school swimming teacher so know how valuable they are to poorer families)

Some of these 'jobs' are down to the parents. School never taught me to swim.

Time and money is also the big issue.

if a language is deemed important why not Chinese, Spanish or Arabic, or something more useful in this current global village)

Because there is a shortage of language teachers in this country, less and less people are studying languages and university departments are closing. Because the number of people who speak these languages well enough to teach is small and increasingly, linguists can earn more than they can in a classroom.

French, by the way, is spoken on all continents, is very much the language of diplomacy and internationalism the world over. Your ignorance is astounding.

How to care for yourself, mental health, swimming etc etc are all important but parents need to take some responsibility here. We have a major problem in so many hours in a day. There is only so much they can do.

@NeedAHoliday2021

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about. My primary dc can swim 25m (quite a few schools have their own 25 m pools round here) and they definitely know about mental health although they seem to think than being anxious means they have anxiety and being angry equals anger issues rather than seeing these as normal emotions that we all feel but have to control.

You must not live in the U.k then or live in a very influential area because it IS NOT the norm for state schools to have swimming pools - they cost an absolute fortune to run!

@EdenFlower

In my experience schools are forever addressing mental health- to the point that by the time they are half way through secondary school they are all convinced they have mental health problems!

I do think this is an issue around the overall discussion of mental health, not just in schools.

I don’t really know how to phrase what I want to say because I’m not saying there should be less discussion, and I do think it’s important to promote openness and remove stigma. But I also think a lot of the way it’s framed is a bit off somehow - I’d like to see more emphasis on the ‘health’ bit of mental health, on wellness and resilience rather than constantly telling ourselves we are anxious/ depressed/ can’t do x y or z etc. Definitely in schools I’d like to see this be the focus where possible.

Swimming and sports facilities

Many, if not most, primaries do not have their own swimming pools and large sports halls, or have them walking distance. Many don't have sports fields at all - the Governments sold them off!
Which means accessing them costs money - money to hire facilities, money to hire trainers, money to hire buses to get pupils there and back. Travelling distances to different places eats into the time. As it happens we do take out Y2 children swimming, but a quick 30 min lesson actually eats up much of the morning - by the time the children are taken there, get changed, get into pool, have lesson, get dried and dressed again and then returned to school - you've lost most of your morning to one short lesson. Same with other sports facilities.

Fwiw we do do a lot of sport, but within the constraints we have regarding time and budgets. We do things like the Daily Mile which gets children active every day. We have installed climbing equipment in the playground for daily activity at playtime. We have a sports group who come in and take specific and specialised sports lessons weekly for reception, and half a year each for key stage 1. We spend our sports premium money effectively to teach what we can to the best of our abilities.

Mental Health

This is a huge thing in most primary schools I know, and has become increasingly so over the last 5 or 6 years. There are many initiates and training out there. We teach about mental health through rshe lessons, but also every day - though systems we have in place such as zones of regulation, trauma informed schools programmes, ACE (adverse childhood experiences) training systems and much much more.
We focus on addressing their own mental health. I personally thing at primary level, and my school is only infants, they need to focus on that rather than how to support others with their own. We do touch on it through generalised teaching such as being a good friend, how to help,others feel happy, etc.

But the bottom line is that there are only so many hours in the day, so many days in a week. And there's only so much money in the budgets, and only so many staff available to do this. We can't teach children everything and I'm afraid much of these extra things should be being taught by parents. It's part of their role, not something that they should be expecting others to teach their children.

@FedUpOfYetAnotherCold

Still confused about the cookie! I work with offenders, many of whom can't read and write, have extremely poor mental health and none were taught mental health, life skills or given access to ways to manage these things in school.

This is something I'm genuinely passionate about. I really think alongside reading, writing and maths - we need to support our kids to come out of primary school with good mental and physical health and knowing how to manage basic living skills, stay away from substances etc...

You work with offenders who can’t read and write.

I’ve taught in both primary and secondary schools. I’ve seen how children and teenagers who lack basic literacy skills may become school refusers, or get into trouble as a way of getting out of lessons they cannot access.

Government funding cuts mean that schools have spent the last 5 years cutting staffing to the bare minimum. Children who need support with basic numeracy and literacy for whatever reason are getting a tiny share of a class teacher’s time, with no other adult support. We are desperate for proper funding for primary schools, to ensure all children are supported to reach functional levels of reading, writing and maths.

It’s typical of this short-sighted government. Adequate school funding early on to support all children is key.

Education up to year 8 or 9 is about giving children a broad base of knowledge and a taste of everything so that they can discover where their real interests lie for further studies. Even GCSEs are fairly limited in what they teach. History, for example, focuses fairly narrowly on British History in the main, because after all that is our own History, and there just isn't time to teach world history in detail. Education doesn't stop when you leave school- it's not really about what children learn that is important, it's about sowing the seeds of interest, that learning is good and about learning how to learn so that they can go forth to be life-long learners.

When they touch on the Romans in primary school most might not remember it, but a few will take it forward to develop a real interest in History from that small snippet.

I think it's not that relevant what exactly we teach them in primary school (other than to read, write and develop their maths skills), but it's important that we teach them they can learn.

I want to teach the pupils in front of me the subject I qualified in.

I want to parent my own children.

I do not want to raise anyone else’s.

@motherrunner

I want to teach the pupils in front of me the subject I qualified in.

I want to parent my own children.

I do not want to raise anyone else’s.

Why who's kids are you raising and what does it have to do with this thread

@FedUpOfYetAnotherCold

Surely some of the onus is on the parents? We have the ability to teach our own kids to swim, pay for lessons etc.

I get that, but many kids don't not have parents able to teach these things or provide lessons etc...

I think, as a pp said, we need a conversation about the role of schools and how we can support ALL kids (not just those privileged enough to have parents able to teach them) to keep mentally and physically healthy and manage to live in society in a compassionate way, able to stay on the right side of the law, and able to live happily and comfortably

So, rather than trying to cram even more into a school curriculum, we should be investing in supporting those parents better. And maybe holding parents responsible for how they parent their children. Lay out an expectation, and help parents without the skills to learn though skills and be able to pass it on.

@Starpleck

Teach what about mental health? If anything it should be taught that sometimes feeling anxious is fine, feeling down sometimes is normal too, and we don't need a label for everything. The amount of people who now proclaim they have anxiety, for example, because they feel anxious before a big event or whatever is annoying as it minimises it.

@Starpleck I could not agree with you more. These are just normal emotions on the human spectrum. It’s healthy to experience nerves or failure or shame or guilt or humiliation or unpleasantness. These are normal healthy self-correctors of human behaviour. It’s how people develop a conscience, a moral compass and resilience. Shielding kids from experiencing these normal ups and downs does them no favours. It produces adults that will either be quivering wrecks at everything or psychopaths that have never had to face the consequences of their behaviour. This over-indulgence and over-introspection over absolutely nothing is doing so much harm.

You’d like schools to parent your children?

There's a new curriculum here in Wales, not sure if anyone on the thread is knowledgeable on it, but my very limited understanding is that they are (theoretically) moving towards a more rounded approach.

The primary schools around here only teach Welsh, I didn't realise primaries in England taught European languages but I'd never given it much thought before! We only got exposed to European languages form Year 7 onwards.

@Evesgarden Well if teachers were doing all the things the OP wants we would be taking the role of parents. M children can swim, they can cook, they have good mental health because I’m making sure they have those life skills. I don’t expect their teachers to parent them.

OP you are right. At the root is the early age of starting proper education in the UK - 4. Other countries might not start until 7, but have a vast kindergarten system involving outdoor learning with light academic touch.

Our kids are mentally destroyed by the exam system in the UK. Secondary school is worse.

Yet, there is no learning of Civics in the UK - kids leave education with a vote but zero education about how the political or financial system of their own country works, basic finance etc.

God help them if the tories get their way with A** at A levels. Just fund more top uni places instead of trying to make it harder to get in.