5 year old too rough with baby

[Essex16]

Ok so not strictly AIBU but I posted on behaviour/development and got no replies.

DD5 was so so excited all through out my pregnancy and has been obsessed with her sister since she was born, problem is DD is so rough I am constantly, CONSTANTLY having to correct her behaviour. It’s the same flipping thing every all day. I tell her that it’s too rough and then show an alternative/adjustment but I'm honestly talking to a brick wall. It’s super frustrating! Like earlier I had to stop her from lying on top of the baby 5 times in the space of 2 minutes. I’m constantly finding her swinging the babies arms about wildly or backwards. I don’t mind them playing together, in fact I love it when they are doing it ‘well’.

When will it end? How do I get DD5 to listen? I’m so fed up of her hundred ‘sorry’s’ and then right back to the same thing. By the end of the day I’ve turned into shouty mum and that doesn’t feel nice either.

Yes @smoko why not give her a whole life tariff and have done with it? An eighty year stretch in the big house ought to sort the delinquent right out.

Steady on @smoko 😳

She may have realised that being physical with baby is what gets your attention more than anything - I agree with this. I know it's annoying OP, but a bit of sibling jealousy is absolutely normal.

She's probably jealous but if she continues she will hurt the baby.
Sorry no practical advice.

Hmmm I dunno, maybe it is jealousy/wanting attention. I asked her earlier why she doesn’t listen and she said it’s because she’s a sister and a mum! No idea what that means

She wants to be in charge of something (the mum comment). Make her your number one helper, give her jobs that are hers to be in charge of and let her choose what the baby wears that day (from 2 choices). She's working out her new role.

At five she doesn't have the judgement for what you're trying to get her to do, even if she understands in the moment that you're saying to be gentler it is going to be difficult for her to judge how gentle or to remember that while she is excited.

She is a five year old and you need to treat her like on, which means not putting her in a position where the normal lively play of a chcild her age could result in her accidentally hurting the baby. If you've told her the baby can play, she's not going to be able to understand that you mean play in a different way to what is normal for her.

I second what other posters are saying which are that you should arrange for her to bond with the baby while you are holding the baby or other situations where the risks are lower and explain that the baby can't play like she does yet. You can't just put the baby on the floor and put the onus on the five year old to avoid accidents.

I’ll repeat again, please be careful OP. She could hurt your daughter and social services would get involved. I know personally of this happening and it was horrendous for the family. SS said they should have prevented it from happening and couldnt rule out it being the parent. I never believed stories like this until the person I know went through it but it was traumatic for them.

@Essex16

They’re not left alone - she does it right in front of me! For example if I’m with the baby on the play mat, DD wants to join in which of course I say is ok because I don’t want to cause a rift but then she just doesn’t listen to what I’m telling her about being careful. I really do try to be as positive as possible but honestly I think she’s just being naughty now and I’m not sure why

She wants your attention. Go over board with positive language and almost ignore the baby and focus on your dd. She was here first and she's feeling pushed out.

And I agree about not letting her play or being left alone with the baby, ever.

** not ever,just not while she's behaving like this !

I definitely wouldn’t be putting her on the naughty step or anything like it. I would be looking to prevent rather than punish. A five year old shouldn’t be playing with a four month old baby - she obviously doesn’t have the ability to be careful.

I know you say they aren’t being left alone but how is she able to ‘swing his arms about repeatedly?’ You need to sit right over her when she’s with the baby and be ready to take her arm as soon as she goes to touch the baby and stop her from grabbing/pulling while encouraging her to pat/stroke.

And I know five year olds know not to help but sometimes they can get over excited. I know when I had my younger two children their older sister would sort of squeeze them. She became to excited by the thought of being with them/playing with them that she wanted to grab them. We simply couldn’t leave them alone together when they were tiny because she couldn’t stop herself from getting too excited and grabbing them.

It's utter bollocks that a 5 year old can't be gentle with a baby. Just tell her off and mean it. Put a play pen around the baby if you can't trust her. Lots and lots of positive ways for her to positively interact with the baby but no way I'd continue to tolerate a 5 year old getting on top of a 4 month old. We've had this age gap twice and not had anything close to what you're describing. I think you have to get a lot tougher OP.

She should know better at 5
So I guess she just is out to try and get attention.

She wants and needs your attention; her whole life has changed . Something you could try is really making it clear that she is your focus. So put the baby on the mat, then tell the baby - in hearing of your five year old “it’s time for you to play on the mat, I’m going to play some big girl games with DD”. Then make a big thing of doing playdough/Lego/whatever DD likes doing , while ignoring the baby (as much as possible, obviously not if she cries!). Even if it’s just for a short time it will establish that when baby is on the mat, she can play alone and DD can have some special time with you.

You need to prevent it from happening. You know at this moment of time she is unable to be gentle regardless of reason. If it is happening right in front of you, why are you continuing to allow it to happen? If sue reaches for the baby you move her arms away and tell her you will not allow her to grab. If she goes to lie on top of baby, you move her away before she has the chance. Redirect her to toys she can hold up for the baby rather than make physical contact

Honestly to me it just sounds like she is super excited to have her baby sister around and ends up doing these things out of excitement. The fact that she always wants to bring her sister out with you both to me shows that she loves her and wants to spend time with you both.

I think you'll just have to "manage" their time together, I have a niece who is 5 and is a bit like yours and if I suspect she is going to do something that could annoy or be dangerous to the baby I pull her up and say that I want to spend time with her and give her cuddles! Gets her away from the baby without hurting her feelings. Ofc I do also just tell her straight "if you do that the baby will get hurt" so she stops.

I felt like I had to comment on this. I'm so tired of Mom's being so hard on one another. Some of the posts on her are so harsh and rude. If this mom didn't care she wouldn't have taken the time to ask for help. It's hard having two small children, I know. Don't take to heart the rude comments just scroll past them. You are doing great and are a great Mom♡

Have you not seen the Harry Enfield skit? If she is 5 she does know and is doing it deliberately. You need to help her grow out of it.

This is a good suggestion. I would agree with others that she should be able to behave around baby better at 5. She's really looking for your attention and will do anything to get it by the sounds of it. And give her special jobs..but then be really really clear you are not happy if she is still lying on the baby etc.... Put the baby somewhere safe and call an end to that game. Move on to something else like a housework job she can help with while baby is safe in buggy or whatever.... don't give it too much attention.