To think this is absolutely horrific?

[cruzrack]

Cannot believe I'm reading this...

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-injects-heroin-toddlers-help-25356048.amp

Fucking hell I hope I never hear that sound in my life

Earth Mother I'm Not's thread has never left me (RIP EMIN):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/922821-drug-dependant-baby-advice-needed

I've been told by someone who was trying to adopt that it's not just the social workers or the police but the courts that make it so difficult to take children away. The belief that children are better off with their biological parents seems to trump everything. Also the 'rights' of the biological parents to 'be able to prove that they can get it right just drags on for so long even when they've shown they cannot parent adequately or even safely.

My DP and his 4 siblings were subjected to terrible physical and mental abuse by their father. DP is the most functional of them. The others are unable to take any part in society, make friends, look for partners, work. They are unable to make the simplest of decisions and are so anxious and on permanent red alert. It’s a disgrace that they weren’t removed. It looks like nothing has changed. Children’s lives being ruined or worse for the misguided notion that they are best with their biological families. When I read about this child I felt angry and heartbroken.

Horrific and highlights the ‘pot luck’ attitude from Children’s Services.

My grandchildren were removed from parents for potential emotional abuse and the parents inability to prioritise their needs (all true btw, the children live safely with me now)

Very little engagement was made with Mum (my DIL) who suffers with Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder, largely due to being pulled through the system, recalling the abuse she experienced as a child until she was adopted at 4yrs old by a woman that used the withdrawing of affection as a discipline method.

My son has autism and struggles with intense emotions, so can appear cold and lacking in empathy.

It took just weeks to decide that the children couldn’t stay with them once SS were involved. It a fair enough comment to say they struggled with looking after the kids due to their own issues.

It took me 7 months to foster my own grandchildren, despite a positive viability assessment, clean DBS, no criminal record, no drug use. All those months of paperwork when other children are really suffering without the support of an extended family.

Child services frequently "get it wrong" I think mainly because of the huge turnover of staff.
The tragic thing is that these are peoples/childrens lives they are dealing with and getting it horribly, horribly wrong in so many cases.
Bungling by a CS dept has caused catastrophic effects in my family from which I don't believe either I or my family will ever recover. The ripple effect of a member of staff ignoring a report from a child psycologist had the effect of a tsunami!

@SierraJulietGolf

I've been told by someone who was trying to adopt that it's not just the social workers or the police but the courts that make it so difficult to take children away. The belief that children are better off with their biological parents seems to trump everything. Also the 'rights' of the biological parents to 'be able to prove that they can get it right just drags on for so long even when they've shown they cannot parent adequately or even safely.

My DP and his 4 siblings were subjected to terrible physical and mental abuse by their father. DP is the most functional of them. The others are unable to take any part in society, make friends, look for partners, work. They are unable to make the simplest of decisions and are so anxious and on permanent red alert. It’s a disgrace that they weren’t removed. It looks like nothing has changed. Children’s lives being ruined or worse for the misguided notion that they are best with their biological families. When I read about this child I felt angry and heartbroken.

This is heart breaking. So much damage can be done in those very early years - it really is make or break time. By the time a child is removed from those circumstances, it often seems to be too late. And the cycle then continues.

Is it money?

Is it cheaper to try to keep a family together?

I'm not sure if I read that article correctly.

It seems to me that opiates were detected, but the children weren't removed until a potential injection site came to light?

So the detection of opiates isn't immediate removal?

In the country I grew up in, my stepfather country, nearly all babies were given whiskey in their milk so they wouldn't wake up in the night. My mother was appalled.

@Gingernaut

One baby was born addicted to heroin - that alone should have been enough to remove the children.

Even though both parents were clearly using drugs, the protection plan ended??

WTAF??

No it really shouldn’t. If mum is stable enough then the best course of action is for her to breastfeed as opiates pass through breast milk -it eases withdrawal and allows the baby to avoid being unwell. Obviously there are cases where the best thing to do is to remove the child (like in this case) but as an addiction worker I hate this attitude because it makes it so much harder for parents to come forward and admit they are an addict or if known to addiction services it encourages them to conceal their pregnancy, If we can catch women early into their pregnancy we can stabilize them (sometimes stopping is too risky for the baby) and it typically has good outcomes. Even if we get to the point of birth and they aren’t stable or there are other risk factors it means we are organized with a placement for baby and it limits trauma for all involved.

SS definitely dropped the ball in this case, but people are always blaming judges, social workers, the society the parents live in etc, but as a foster carer what frustrates me is that more people don't consider fostering. The more foster parents on the books, the choosier social workers can be when organising a placement, and the more likely it will be a good match with a good outcome down the line. I know that not everyone is in a position to foster, but if more people put themselves forward instead of shrugging their shoulders and blaming everyone else, the care system could be significantly improved. It takes a village and all that.

@diddl

Is it money?

Is it cheaper to try to keep a family together?

I'm not sure if I read that article correctly.

It seems to me that opiates were detected, but the children weren't removed until a potential injection site came to light?

So the detection of opiates isn't immediate removal?

Actually not always cheaper to keep a family together once you add in the package of support it might entail. In part it’s due to research into adoption trauma and cases of child abuse in care that has fueled this more conservative approach. Policy is based around the child’s right to family life (the human rights act) so the onus is on social work to evidence that overriding their human rights is, in this case, the best thing to do. Sadly social work and addictions are under funded so opportunities are missed and the staff aren’t always best trained to meet the really high thresholds demanded.

@Deadringer

SS definitely dropped the ball in this case, but people are always blaming judges, social workers, the society the parents live in etc, but as a foster carer what frustrates me is that more people don't consider fostering. The more foster parents on the books, the choosier social workers can be when organising a placement, and the more likely it will be a good match with a good outcome down the line. I know that not everyone is in a position to foster, but if more people put themselves forward instead of shrugging their shoulders and blaming everyone else, the care system could be significantly improved. It takes a village and all that.

And as a foster carer you know it’s not as easy as saying ‘oh I think I’ll foster this week.

You jump through hoops just to be accepted. Then the paperwork if you do succeed is endless. The appointments need a folder alone.

It’s a full time job that quite literally takes over your life.

"Policy is based around the child’s right to family life (the human rights act) so the onus is on social work to evidence that overriding their human rights is, in this case, the best thing to do."

When you read cases like this it does appear to be family life at any cost to the children, doesn't it?

@IncessantNameChanger

I dont know what CP socail workers are like, but my childrens disability SW is worse than a chocolate teapot. They leave in droves. They dont have enough staff or time. I have never seen mine in person since she took us on in August.

If I complain I am basically told having a SW is a honour, privalidge and i should be honoured. My SW cancels every meeting as she is in court at a days notice ( I struggle to believe that tbh. Like I say she isnt CP).

They have zero idea what my childrens lives are like or my house. They dont talk to school. They basically dont want to see any needs. They dont have time to deal with abuse or neglect as they cant even meet statatory duty.

IF I wanted too, i could hide anything from mine. They could sleep on the floor and be a child sex ring. Honestly, honestly they arent there for the families or the kids. I am there to provide them with a living. That is the bottom line

The problem isn’t your social worker, it’s the system that they work for. You think any social worker sets out to do a bad job? Think again. Caseloads are unrealistic, the demands are unrealistic, social workers leave because it’s not feasible. That work then gets passed onto another social worker who is probably already drowning and the cycle continues. And yup you do get thrown into court with minimal notice - that’s how it works. You can plan a diary all you like but all it takes is 1 incident and everything is derailed. A lot of social workers generally have 35 children on their caseload, I’ve known some with as much as 45. Its just not possible to have constant oversight of all those children and things change from day to day. It’s just ridiculous and you put the social worker at the forefront to get frustration from parents, professionals, managers because things aren’t done or families aren’t seen regularly. How about recognising the system as being shit and not fit for purpose? Fact is there aren’t enough social workers to go round because they leave because the quality of life whilst on the job is shit, pure shit. No work life balance, constant anxiety, hours upon hours working late and on weekends to prop up a broken system.

Those pure children being removed from a plan was ridiculous but it’s not just the social workers who have a say in that. The decision would have been reached with input from schools/health visitors/police etc but there isn’t much mention of them. The social worker becomes the scapegoat once again.

This is deeply shocking. I fully accept that social services are massively underfunded and social workers are overstretched. However, it's very hard to understand how toddlers who have been reported to have been injected with heroin by their parents, and also found to have heroin in their bodies, haven't been immediately removed. There is such an obvious and immediate risk of very serious harm and I do think questions need to be answered here.

A good friend of mine went through the process to become a foster carer. The process took a year, her friends, myself included, were interviewed at length, a whole afternoon in my case, reports were written etc. She then asked how it was going and if and when she would hear whether or not she had been accepted. She was informed the agency social worker who had overseen all the interviews had left and the work had been lost.
The process would have to be started again.
That’s why there are not enough foster carers.

I know a little behind the scenes stuff about this case. It really isn’t as clear cut case of abuse as the Mirror is alleging.

I feel very sorry for the social workers because they are given utterly heartbreaking situations to deal with and have nowhere near enough funding or support. Some of the situations I saw have haunted me for decades (not a social worker myself but saw some extreme child cruelty).

Having said that, one social worker I worked with professionally was pure toxic poison, picking on staff members one by one, withholding information, isolating them and driving them into breakdowns.

Another used / uses prostitutes.

An enormous overhaul of the whole child protection system is needed, a huge amount of funding for the work and for good salaries, and legal framework looked at.

But there has to be the political will to do that and there isn't.

I can
I just hate how the blame always goes on SS
No wonder they are on LT sick leave

Agree we get what we pay for
And no one wants to pay for more tax

The problem is also human rights. A drunken, drug taking parent is allowed to parent as best they can. You can't remove the child easily as the parent has rights, the right to have children and the right to take drugs.

Ozanj, not dismissing what you say. But if the facts really are as reported (admittedly, if) ... the situation is terrible. Not only the heroin but the general neglect of the childrens' needs.

@Elderflower14

A late friend of mine used to foster straight from the hospital new born heroin addicted babies.... The terrible mewling cry is something i hope I never ever hear again... 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢 😢

I used to work in a place which a lot of people addicted to drugs used and there were generations of families, including babies addicted to heroin and/or methadone. I know exactly what sound you mean - it used to make me cry in my office because it is so upsetting.

@rrhuth

People also need to recognise that social workers are carrying maybe triple the recommended case loads. Imagine spending every day of your working life not just reading a story like this but actually in there, seeing the children, getting to know them, walking into their substandard homes - and knowing you can do nothing about it.

Then your colleague goes off sick (with stress, totally understandable) so your caseload is added to.

They work so hard, and there is nothing they can do to help people, and they are vilified by people who have never done a job anything like it in their lives.

People want magic solutions. Anyone using the word 'streamlining' and 'efficiency' can fuck right off.

^This

@Yusanaim

The problem is also human rights. A drunken, drug taking parent is allowed to parent as best they can. You can't remove the child easily as the parent has rights, the right to have children and the right to take drugs.

These are not 'human rights'. You are confused.

Local authorities have had so much of their funding taken away.

My virtual voice is hoarse from saying this.

The Tories have pulled a neat trick because people think that council tax is how local authorities are funded. Actually they also got a massive amount from central government.

The Tories have cut this money significantly- nearly half of it has gone.

This means that social services are operating on a shoe string and cases like this happen. And will keep on happening. More money needs to go back in - and it really should be funded centrally as it was before, not by council tax.

So, when you see cases like this, be reminded it’s because the likes of Eric Pickles stripping funding back in 2010 and it’s never recovered.

It’s going to keep happening.