Difficult parent relationships & expectations

[notsurewhattheproblemis]

I've name changed for this as its quite outing and probably makes me sound an awful person, but I need to figure out if I am being really bad, why I am.... I wasn't sure where best to put this, but I know AIBU gets most traffic... it's a long one but don't want to drip feed....

So I'm in my late 30s and have one (older) sibling who doesn't have a partner or children. Im married with 3 kids. These kids are therefore my parents only grandkids.

My parents were good parents when I was young, never mistreated me in any way whatsoever, but as Ive got older I have realised they are in their own way quite controlling and can be quite manipulative. My mum suffers from depression and has done since I was a young teenager. She could be quite cold to me when she went through a bad spell at the start of her depression and I think that this has effected my relationship with my parents quite a lot as while I love them I don't feel close to them, but I often wonder if they realise I feel that? We don't talk about things much - it's all v superficial chat.

So the issue is I have a constant battle with them about seeing their grandchildren and it gets me quite down. They want to see them what feels like all the time to me, and whatever I do never seems enough. Lockdown seriously exacerbated this as well didn't see them for a couple of month except over zoom. We live just under an hour away from them and I work 4 days a week. They have never offered to do regular childcare with my eldest and I'd never ask them now as the 2 youngest are a handful and my parents are now too old to be able to chase after boisterous pre-schoolers.
So at the moment I have 1 day a week off work, and am at home with the 2 youngest then. Eldest is at school. I feel pressurised to see the grandparents that one day a week and they usually stay for a few hours so they see eldest after school too... but it's just that - pressurised. Usually it's every other week that we do see them, as I also want to see other people - like the little ones nursery friends, my friends or even just have a day just us. I am always made to feel guilty about the weeks we don't see them (my dad tells me my mum is 'down' about not having seen the grandchildren for 'a while') and it makes me pull away rather than go 'oh ok, come every week'. There are obviously weekends too, but as DH works all week we like to keep these as family weekends plus eldest has a couple of her clubs on the weekend so they eat time, also - while all my kids love their grandparents they also have way more fun seeing friends than they do with the grandparents as my parents are more of the 'kids entertain us' kind of grandparent than the other way round.
So... the question is AIBU to not see them more often? I feel I'm being unfair as they do love their grandkids, but at the same time, I feel that if we did see them once a week it would still not be enough and then somehow it would turn into weekends too and then we'd never see anyone else and while it's good to see them I don't, if I'm honest, actively enjoy it. I just feel this weight of expectation and not sure how to resolve it. My DH isn't a fan of them, largely due to how mixed my feelings are, so it's not his fault, but obviously he doesn't much want to spend time with them every weekend either.
Hope that all makes sense - please be gentle!

I'm in the exact same position so don't feel bad at all. I'm the same, feeling pressurised to see family doesn't make me want to see them but it pushes me further away

I think you see them often enough and you shouldn't be made to feel as if your mum feeling down is your fault. You're entitled to your own life and to see your own friends or spend time just as your own family unit.

It really annoys me when I see things like this as it's like because they're your mum/grandparent they feel entitled to your time and if they don't get it they become upset - not realising that you actually have a life of your own.

Not sure I have any advice though - maybe gently just explain to them you have other things going on too and that you enjoy spending time with them but would also like an opportunity to do other things ??

@Tee20x thanks for replying - I'm sorry you have this pressure too, but relieved I'm not the only one. I definitely want my kids to have a good relationship with their grandparents, but equally when I was young I saw my gps in holidays only (and adored them!) so I don't really understand the expectation from my parents.

I forgot to add in my original post that the situation with my sibling possibly makes things worse as they see my parents all the time (2x a week) but they do live closer and they don't have anyone else to consider. I'd have hoped that seeing my sibling so often might fill some of the void I feel like they want my kids to fill, but it seems to do the opposite, it makes them think I'm unreasonable for not seeing them so often too. I feel sad that I don't have the sort of relationship with my parents that others on here have, and I'm not sure why I don't, but I just don't, and this pressure is making it worse not better.

If I say anything about it, I am made to feel like my mum will spiral into a deep depression, so I can't. I just feel trapped and actually would prefer to see them less than I do (I think once a month would be about right) which I feel really guilty about, as I am sure most Mumsnetters are super close with their parents and see them every 2nd day, but more importantly I know that I'd feel heartbroken if my kids grow up and don't want to see me much.

I think you feel guilty that you don't have a closer relationship with them, as if it's somehow your fault. It's not your fault, and you need to let go of the sense of obligation towards them.

You have a busy life, you are trying to juggle loads of things (not only kids, husband, work, but also time for yourself). Their needs do not come first in all of this. You need to set boundaries. Is it possible they don't realise how busy you are? I would just keep saying to them, no it's not convenient to see you more often. And maybe try to mix it up a bit as to when you see them (eg not always the same day or on a schedule) as that can just reinforce the expectation further.

YANBU, the ‘deep depression’ stuff is so manipulative.

I think twice a month is more than enough. I’d be tempted to lie and say you’re now working 5 days a week and the 5th additional day is WFH so you can’t see them the whole day.

Could you meet them at a soft play or cafe? It may feel less pressurised then and you could head home without them after a couple of hours?

It sounds like it's bordering on effecting your mental health. Next time your dad says anything point that out.

You have to put your health first for your kids and if that means seeing your parents less then do it. It's nothing to feel guilty or ashamed about; it's what good parents do.

I appreciate it can be hard to let go; I had to stop caring as much for my mum when I had dc1 and her health (mental and physical) did deteriorate. She died quite suddenly 3 years ago. Nothing I could have done would have stopped her being depressed, anxious or neglectful of her own health - it would have just dragged it out for longer.

It's sad but I'm glad I put my child/ren first.

Thanks @violetbunny - you are right - I do feel guilty that I'm not closer to them as I know they love me and they cared for me growing up and I had a v lucky generally happy upbringing - other than when mum developed her depression and even then it wasn't her fault.
I guess part of me questions why Im not closer more in the last few years since being a parent myself.
You are also right that the making it a regular day that I see them has now set an expectation - they definitely assume that we will see them and if I don't then I HAVE to have something else to tell them I'm doing, they always act v hurt if I just say 'sorry, we are busy, how about next week?' It needs to be 'sorry, I'm seeing x who I haven't seen in a year' or something similar for them to accept it without a huff? I think that's why I want to pull back more, to reset expectations? I did miss them when we were in lockdown and they were the very first people we saw once we were allowed, but I actually felt a sense of relief at times that it was out of my hands...

@User0ne sorry about your mum, that sounds v hard. X

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. I have three young children and only work three days, and honestly still feel like my days off get filled so easily- it’s so important to also have some days to do what you and the kids want to do. I was going to say once a month would sound reasonable to me, especially if they’re staying a fair while until your eldest gets home.

The depression card is quite manipulative. As is the huffs. You get one chance to bring up your DC and enjoy your time with them, and your preferences come first. Why does their ' hurt' trump your feelings? You don't owe them anything for bringing you up, or maybe you've been conditioned to keep them happy. Not such great parenting.
Stop being so available, don't answer the phone at times and break any set expectations now. This will only get worse as they get older.
YADNBU and I would think far less of them for relying so heavily on you to fill the gaps.

I think you should look up "fear, obligation, guilt" - otherwise known as FOG.

I agree with a previous poster that it sounds like there is some emotional manipulation going on. Huffing and reacting badly like that is a form of control, it's designed to make you do as you are told. The best thing to do is to ignore the huffs like you would a toddler having a tantrum. I appreciate it's easier said than done though. We are conditioned to believe we should always have a close and great relationship with our parents. So when a parent is exhibiting controlling behaviours then it can be hard to know what to do. Just remember that healthy relationships include having healthy boundaries.

Perhaps another tactic to try is when you meet them propose another date that suits YOU - e.g. Let's pop round to see you for a cuppa in a month? That way if they badger you, you can just say "no it doesn't suit us to meet you then, we'll see you for a cuppa on the date we already agreed." Easier to say no when you've already said yes, if you see what I mean.

@cptartapp

The depression card is quite manipulative. As is the huffs. You get one chance to bring up your DC and enjoy your time with them, and your preferences come first. Why does their ' hurt' trump your feelings? You don't owe them anything for bringing you up, or maybe you've been conditioned to keep them happy. Not such great parenting. Stop being so available, don't answer the phone at times and break any set expectations now. This will only get worse as they get older. YADNBU and I would think far less of them for relying so heavily on you to fill the gaps.

I agree with this. You work 4 days a week with 3 children.

I can well imagine your MH is suffering from so much pressure.

Your children are your priority and I think them having nice days with their mum trumps their grandparents.

Your parents ARE being very manipulative so I think you need to be less available, less apologetic.

It is not your fault your mother gets down.
Suggest she see the GP.

You have a lot going on and them guilting you is awful.

Your children will want to be doing sports and activities, parties etc as they get older.
This is a lovely part of childhood.

Your parents are not entitled to one day a week unless you very willingly want to spend it with them.

You don't, so stop and do not be guilted.

Remind them of how little you saw your grandparents and how it didn't make any difference to how you loved them.

Start putting your needs first before it starts impacting your family.
They need you well.

Op just do what you can. My mum would be like that too. Days set in stone. Work helped as could not come at set times. Then you try keep your own home going.

@violetbunny googled FOG and must admit that there is a LOT there that ring true. I kind of knew this already, which is why I push back, but it does feel like the more I push back the worse it gets..!

@billy1966 i have tried getting my mum to see someone, but it's never really worked. She goes to the gp, and either pretends she's fine, and so nothing gp can do, or she gets pills that she then doesn't take as 'they make her fat'. So it is what it is...

I don't want to be making it worse, but I also am tired of her happiness falling on my shoulders and I also hate that it's now kind of falling on my kids shoulders too.

I don't really know how to get out of this situation though without causing a massive fall out.

I think the routine/habit is the dangerous thing.

I remember my mum unplugging the phone (long before mobiles) on a Sunday as she couldn't cope with the ex-inlaws turning up for tea - as they continued to do after my dad left....

Can you get them to do a particular job? So for example my mother takes my nieces swimming on a Wednesday evening and then they all have dinner together?

If FOG rings true for you then I would highly recommend this book called Emotional Blackmail - it's also available as a downloadable Kindle version that you can read via the Kindle app:

https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate-ebook/dp/B07DHLCKY1/ref=tmmkinnswatch0??encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Funny that your dm didn't see her parents every week when she was bringing you up. Yet she expects this from you. You are not a bad dd. If you were you would not be giving them one thought. You are not responsible for your dms depression and its not your job to fix her. Definitely once a fortnight is enough and it's always better to mix it up so she doesn't have the expectation that it's always Friday. Do you go to their house? It might be easier to leave if you did as waiting for them to leave is annoying. Maybe pop over on a Sunday evening as a family after ye have a few hours out instead of giving up your precious Friday every fortnight.

Take the pressure off yourself.
I am a great believer in having one sentence to say eg
Oh it's hard when we are so busy but we will catch up soon
And keep saying just that.
That comes from the recommended book Emotional Blackmail and you will find lots more there to help.

Are you me?!!

Lockdown was amazing because I couldn't see my mother, I relaxed so much.
For years she has seen us one day a week but I have pushed back to once a fortnight & it's made such a difference.

Anytime we are sick/busy (& like you say it has to be a fully justified x person we haven't seen in 6 yrs type busy) she moans & complains & resents the hell out of me.

My advice is to push to fortnightly & meet somewhere neutral. If it's my house she picks & "helps" by pointing out my poor housekeeping and will not bloody leave. Says she's not staying for dinner & is still sitting there while I'm making it so then I have to adapt it to suit an extra person.
If it's her house she actively delays our departure regardless of why we need to leave.
In a neutral place I can leave when I want to & the kids can get on with having fun.

but more importantly I know that I'd feel heartbroken if my kids grow up and don't want to see me much. this is what scares me too but my relationship with my children is totally different to the relationship my mother thinks we have or the relationship we actually have so I hope that means we'll have a different future too.

Same with my mum - whatever I did for her, it was never enough. It got to the point when I was accused of cutting her out of my life when DH and I wanted a few hours on Xmas morning by ourselves. It was a break through moment for me. I'd spent years trying to make her happy, but the penny dropped that it just wasn't possible. I now do what I like. And she is as unhappy as she has always been. Turns out my behaviour has always been completely irrelevant - it's just the thing she fixates on as the root of everything wrong in her life.
Your parents won't change. But you can!

OP,

You admit that it is affecting your children so do it for them if not yourself.

Every week is too much.
The children want to do other things, with other people.
On a loop say this.

You don't have to get your mother to go to the GP, not your job BUT if your father tries to guilt you say "dad, bring her to the GP then, if she is low. I have to go, the vhildren need me".

Stop answering the phone.
Get off the phone.

You didn't see your grandparents every week, keep repeating that.

Don't allow this people the power over you that they have.

Thanks all. At the moment it's not once a week, even though I know they definitely want it to be, but if I dare let it go more than every 2nd week then I get the guilt trip messages (it's usually emails rather than phone calls). I have actually tried to have a frank conversation with my dad about it on the phone but he doesn't listen to what he doesn't want to hear... they seem to think that I am trying to prove some sort of point by 'not letting them help' but it's not that I'm not letting them help, it's that I know they can't and actually don't seem to realise that when they come it's more work for me not less. I think meeting in a neutral place is a good idea though - will have to think of places.

They adore their grandchildren, I know they do, but my dad isn't hands on - he observes. my mum would be more hands on 15 years ago (she at least does play with the toddler on the floor for a bit) but until the said toddler is a bit older (and therefore more able to understand danger!) I would not be comfortable leaving her in charge of them as she can't keep up. My eldest has stayed overnight with them and been bored silly, even though she gets to watch endless tv, as that's how my parents cope with not having the energy to do lots with the kids, but youngest isn't old enough to have an attention span of more than 5 mins of tv, so i feel it would be a disaster. Part of me thinks I should just give them the kids for an afternoon to look after and then they'd probably never ask again, but I'm not sure I want to take that risk with the littlest as she's 'wilful' and a climber...

I used to meet my parents at national trust Gardens quite often due to distance. We found this worked well as there are plenty of seats for older people to sit down and space for children to run around.

Neutral places that work for us are

Country park with cafe for take out & ducks to feed.
Art gallery with Sculptures outside
Historic Scotland properties (when they actually open more than three again )
A farm park type place - if there is one that works for you get them to get a membership too!
We do a fair bit of meeting for walks too but mine are a bit older.