To think too many people are friends with abject arseholes?

[Merryoldgoat]

Off the back of a few threads, it feels like absolutely masses of threads have an OP which is basically ‘I have a good friend who treats me like a cunt on a regular basis etc - AIBU to do something very sensible to stop this untenable situation?’

Why? Why are so many adult people putting up with shit behaviour from so-called friends?

I have a fairly healthy number of friends across several different friendship groups. The odd one irritates me now and again but the idea I’d stay friends with someone who was regularly vile to me is really confounding - surely it’s not normal for friends to act like they hate you?

YABU - I have lots of friends who seem to hate me

YANBU - I don’t have any friends who consistently treat me like they hate me.

Because an awful lot of people have problems with boundaries and find it hard to stand up to themselves.

I think a lot of people have fairly controlling definitions of what a “friend” is, and expect a “friend” to endlessly take poor behaviour.

I am often staggered at the behaviour people tolerate from partners, in laws and extended family on here too. The longer I spend on here the more grateful I am that I don’t have a large extended family.

It can be a bit like a toxic relationship I think and you can get "stuck". I had a friend who was a complete bitch to me, it got to the point where I was nearly having a panic attack when her name popped up on my phone .

I ditched her years ago but I can see how people can be unsure what to do, especially when part of a big friendship group, close mutual friends etc it can be a massive statement to make when you put your foot down and tell them to fuck off and it is often easier to put up and shut up.

@thepeopleversuswork
Totally agree. Issues with boundaries and expectations.

Why? Why are so many adult people putting up with shit behaviour from so-called friends?

Because they consider themselves to be "people pleasers" which seems to be a badge of honour on MN, rather than the more accurate "wet lettuce"

Daft really, as it doesn't seem to occur to them that these so-called friends are making absolutely no effort to take their feelings into account and don't give a shit about upsetting them.

"Oh, but they wll be upset..."

So? You are upset by them. Does that not matter?*

*spoiler alert - yes, yes it does matter.

I think that there’s an assumption that friendship must never end, no matter what happens. Your friend can stop contacting you, be horrible to you, you MUST stay friends or it will be your fault.

I also think when you’re part of a friendship group, that not putting up with it/calling out poor behaviour can lead to the rest of the group freezing you out as the one making trouble/rocking the boat so you end up losing more than just the unpleasant friend.

Some people don't value themselves properly or are so desperate to keep their "friends" that they'll endure ridiculous behavior.

When you consider how many people stay in abusive romantic relationships, it's not as surprising that the same type of thing happens in friendships.

@MrsTWH yes - this is true for sure. I was part of a big friendship group from 17 until about 30 but as we got older the dynamics changed and I left them behind and just see the two I still liked. They’re still embroiled in the nonsense and seem to wear the ‘25 years of friendship’ like a badge of honour even though it’s largely been spent upset and feeling shit.

I am definitely not what could be described as a people pleaser and I’m glad about that.

I’m also perfectly comfortable with people not liking me. I don’t go out of my way to make people NOT like me but if they don’t that’s fine. I think a lot of people see it as a massive failing and go out of their way to try to make the person like them which starts off a toxic power dynamic anyway.

I think you are all right about boundaries and expectations.

The wedding threads on here really get me. I wonder if there’s a bit of me missing sometimes as I just couldn’t get like that or have expectations of friends that are so unrealistic.

@RunningScarabbed

That’s true for sure. My DH said that he’s never met anyone who has such a sense of self worth and it’s stood me in good stead.

The risk of the wider group ditching you explains a lot but I think another factor can be when you have history with a person. A friendship with history can be a precious thing, especially in our transient times but sometimes people do change for the worse. Its hard to let go of these people because even if you can make better friends in the future it's not the same as an old friend you've grown up or shared an experience with.

I agree and I have to say that over the years, I've intentionally reduced my circle of friends to those I truly adore. I can't be bothered with drama llamas, liars and I can honestly say that I do not spend time with anyone I can't stand or secretly seeth about.

My neighbour who I've had a long friendship with (8 years) spoke to me like shit a couple of months ago in front of someone else and my DS, she knows she did wrong as she emailed me to apologise, I told her she was rude and I didn't appreciate it especially as she embarrassed me in front of my DS and I've kept my distance since as I don't deserve to be spoken to like that! I don't need to take time out of my day for someone to speak to me like that so I don't knock on her door to check on her, check if needs shopping or take her flowers like I used to. I know it probably sounds a bit mean but I just don't care, past experience has taught not to give second chances to anyone so I don't.

@Youdoyoutoday

I don’t blame you at all. When that kind of thing happens it feels like they’re testing you and will push you further next time once they get away with it once.

I think it is because people are not all good or all bad. A friend can be kind, considerate etc.. and then also do a really crappy thing or have a blind spot.
You could have a lovely friend who always “forgets” her wallet. Other than this she is generous with her time and ready to help out in an emergency.

@Badlytornfrube

I get that and I’m far from perfect as are my friends. But there’s a difference between deciding to ignore/accept a singular flaw and being constantly diminished by someone.

My best friend can’t deal with going into a pub on her own. Just can’t. I find it utterly bizarre but it’s not a big deal.

But she’s not rude/nasty etc

I think it's knowing where the boundaries are sometimes. Some of the stuff I read on here, I think no bloody way, but generally things are more subtle and dynamics change over time.

I've got a friend who is lovely when I see her but have realised it's all on her terms. Meeting time, venue etc. If I invite her to something specific at mine she will always have an excuse to avoid it, but will then invite herself over at another time. If I make plans she flakes and takes others out with her.

I've known her over a decade. Cutting her off seems a bit much but the interactions do annoy me and take up too much headspace. The more I cool contact, the more she gets in touch.

Another person I used to know fairly well used to engineer drama and falling outs over the most trivial of things. I entirely cut ties with her as it was immature and exhausting, haven't missed her at all in years.

I agree with @Badlytornfrube. I have a friend who has a heart of gold yet has inadvertently upset one or other of our friendship group by sometimes being thoughtless in things she says or does. She's mortified when she realises. I actively drew back from being so close with her when I realised to avoid me being hurt. She can also be extremely kind and caring so she's not a nasty person!

I see it as mainly about self-esteem. If you have lots, you KNOW you’re better off without. If you don’t have that much, you wonder if this is what you’re worth.

@Youdoyoutoday

I agree and I have to say that over the years, I've intentionally reduced my circle of friends to those I truly adore. I can't be bothered with drama llamas, liars and I can honestly say that I do not spend time with anyone I can't stand or secretly seeth about.

My neighbour who I've had a long friendship with (8 years) spoke to me like shit a couple of months ago in front of someone else and my DS, she knows she did wrong as she emailed me to apologise, I told her she was rude and I didn't appreciate it especially as she embarrassed me in front of my DS and I've kept my distance since as I don't deserve to be spoken to like that! I don't need to take time out of my day for someone to speak to me like that so I don't knock on her door to check on her, check if needs shopping or take her flowers like I used to. I know it probably sounds a bit mean but I just don't care, past experience has taught not to give second chances to anyone so I don't.

I have to say I feel like this now. I don't bother with second chances for people who show their true colours. Why would I come back for more? There are SO many nice people in the world. I'd rather meet some new ones and hang out with them or spend more time with a small number of trusted friends.

I have a rule that has stood me in good stead. If, in a group of friends, any one individual starts to talk about another behind their back (by which I mean 'wait until you hear what Jane said about Sally's new car' rather than 'oh, did you see that Sally got her new car?') then it's time to back away. If they will message me to try to run someone down behind their back, they won't think twice about doing the same to me.

I haven't had any drama with friends since I was in my 20s, when I still lacked a sense of worth. Now I'm sure of my values and I only spend my time with people who actually seem to like me.

I've actively distanced myself from the arsehole acquaintance in my life. Life is much better. Loads of people just seem to put up with her because "That's just what she's like" or "Well, she is a pain but she's good at doing X". I decided to focus on the people in my life that I don't need to excuse like that.