"I'm Irish American"

[MacMahon]

I've noticed that to many Americans their Irish, Scots, Italian etc. roots are a big part of their current identity. As a nation of immigrants in a New World I can see why this link to earlier generations is interesting and important.

But it's also something I find confusing.

I live in Yorkshire. I'm English. I have Irish ancestors on both side (great grandparents and great x2 grandparents). If I was in America this would quite possibly be a big deal. I'd be an Irish American and identify with the struggles and persecution that my people suffered at the hands of the English. But I wasn't born in America, I was born in Leeds, and my Irish ancestry play zero role in my identity.

I'm on an ancestry group and Americans are getting that DNA test done and finding out that, contrary to family lore that they are Cherokee or Mexican or Italian Americans, they're actually pretty much 'just' 100% British.

It makes me wonder how authentic this celebrating or identifying with their Irish/First Nations/Italian roots is, and how much is just (mistaken) tribalism and division.

@SenecaFallsRedux

That's very interesting Jassy. Presbyterian churches all over the US often have festivals or special days that celebrate Scottish heritage. And there are a lot of Scottish place names everywhere, especially in North Carolina. There is even a Scotland County there.

I have a very fond memory of the Rugby World Cup in Australia in 2003 (which was a really lovely community event overall) when Scotland played the US in one of the pool matches in Queensland. I think the handful of US supporters had no idea of the strength of Scottish heritage in SE Qld and northern New South Wales and were very confused when most of the 50,000 people at the match were very vocally supporting Scotland…

I felt quite sorry for them.

I had another culture shock when we were naming our kids, what I thought of as totally normal boys’ names in particular, my English husband felt were very Scottish and he would feel weird giving such Scottish names to an English child.

That’s such a good and important point @Bathtoy. It’s such a generational and continuing thing, and newer immigrants will refresh and draw on those communities.

@JassyRadlett

If you have spent any time in the US or AUS you'll know there's no shortage of sneering at the English.

I mean I am Australian and have spent a fair amount of time there. And I wouldn’t defend Australians making fun of or sneering at other nationalities, including the English, either.

Though I think it’s a mixed bag in Australia… just as much Anglophilia and certainly a sense of affinity with the UK as there is negativity. My own take is that the negativity is partly borne out of the way British people, and particularly the English, have spoken to and about Australians for generations. I still get referred to as a ‘colonial’ and told that my country is ‘cultureless’ by people who would never dream of describing any other place (except maybe the US) like that.

But it’s an explanation not at excuse. Mocking other nationalities is shitty behaviour.

Interesting response though. So because not all Americans and Australians are nice about the English, it’s ok to sneer at, mock and denigrate their culture? Cool.

Interesting response though. So because not all Americans and Australians are nice about the English, it’s ok to sneer at, mock and denigrate their culture? Cool.

Not what I said at all - just pointing out it's not all one way traffic. As it goes my favourite ever job was in a company run by an Australian (in the UK) working with a lot of Australians. As you may imagine there was a fair bit of banter - but it wasn't the open hatred |I experienced from a minority of colleagues in the US companies.

As I mentioned upthread, no objection to people calling themselves a nationality - but I am not taking hatred from an "Irish" American about things my English Ancestors did when my English ancestors were dirt poor illiterate labourers barely scratching a living and with no vote. I am not denying Ireland has been repeatedly shafted by England over the years - but it's been really none of my doing.

Ok. I read it as excusing the idea that belittling US and Australian culture is seen to be fair game in the UK, because some Australians or Americans are twats. I’d never claimed that all Australians and Americans are without fault in that regard, or suggested it was only one way traffic.

I accept that excusing the behaviour wasn’t your intent, and apologise for any misunderstanding.

I grew up in the US and also find this ridiculous. There is a pernicious side as well, with respect to Ireland. When I was growing up I knew people whose relatives had left the country years previously who considered themselves stakeholders in politics in the country today and contributed to IRA funds (or ones they were told they were.)

I also agree with the previous poster, many people will have a very out of date view of the country and some of them very much like the idea things might be just as their grannies (more likely great or gg granny) remembered them. I doubt that many will know there's been a marriage equality act, abortion reform etc. It's embarrassing.

When I first was dating DH and introducing him to some friends in America I had one friend tell me that her then-boyfriend might be a bit off with him 'because he is Scottish.' Scottish my arse, his family literally had been in the US since the 17th century. WTF, seriously.

Another British SuperFan said to my mother: "Have you ever spoken to a TRUE YORKSHIREMAN?" "Yes," she said. "My son-in-law."

@SenecaFallsRedux

My biggest surprise is the obsession that the USA has with the UK royal family.

Obsession? My guess is that the vast majority of Americans have very little interest in the British RF. I have a strong interest, based on my interest in British history, and quite a bit of knowledge, but I am far from obsessed.

I don't necessarily think people in the US are obsessed with the RF (some are, though.) I think they don't understand that British people aren't either. Yes, there is media coverage in the way celebrities might be. When I was in in the US in Oct 2019, the US news channel I was watching led on a Harry and Meghan tour story. This is like two weeks before we could have crashed out of the EU. If the goal was 'world news' it was gobsmacking they chose that item. Growing up it was like that too: I'm sure instead of Black Wednesday you'd have had Lady Di on the front page on some of the papers.

There are a few closet royal fans near me in Ireland, my late neighbour and i used to have lovely chats about them.

Ok, obviously not all citizens of the USA are obsessed or even vaguely interested in the UK Royals but
Yes, there is media coverage in the way celebrities might be.
This isn't the case either.

There is no reason for a long dead princess from another country with no links to the USA to have a min series on a serious news channel.

Why is Prince Philip considered a celebrity in the USA? ( just the most recent example)

I have lived in other countries in addition to the USA and UK so can observe that the USA is much more interested in the royals than most other countries with no current UK connections are.
There are more magazines with bizarre royal rumors at my local supermarket checkout in the Midwest than there were in the UK.

@OVienna

Another British SuperFan said to my mother: "Have you ever spoken to a TRUE YORKSHIREMAN?" "Yes," she said. "My son-in-law."

sorry - this was before she was about to impart some deep cultural insight, she felt my mother needed to hear.

@verymiddleaged

Ok, obviously not all citizens of the USA are obsessed or even vaguely interested in the UK Royals but Yes, there is media coverage in the way celebrities might be. This isn't the case either.

There is no reason for a long dead princess from another country with no links to the USA to have a min series on a serious news channel.

Why is Prince Philip considered a celebrity in the USA? ( just the most recent example)

I have lived in other countries in addition to the USA and UK so can observe that the USA is much more interested in the royals than most other countries with no current UK connections are.
There are more magazines with bizarre royal rumors at my local supermarket checkout in the Midwest than there were in the UK.

Yes, there is media coverage in the way celebrities might be. I was talking about the UK there, not the US.

Sorry @OVienna I obviously need to drink some more coffee.

When I was in in the US in Oct 2019, the US news channel I was watching led on a Harry and Meghan tour story. This is like two weeks before we could have crashed out of the EU. If the goal was 'world news' it was gobsmacking they chose that item.

Media outlets have different audiences. CNBC would have covered the EU story and not H&M. It's also about attracting viewers. H&M are entertainment, not news, and most Americans aren't that fussed about Brexit.

My British (UK passport, living in England) DH has 2 great grandparents who came over from Ireland, he’s very proud of his Irish roots.

Znaida, you plainly missed the point of what I was saying. I don't think ANYONE needs to be educated about how to think if they don't want to be. Some Americans may have a peculiar relationship with modern Scotland, in your opinion. You may have a lack of understanding of their perspective. And some Brits may have a lack of understanding of what the real America is all about. Three perspectives that are all lacking in complexity. It's a pity, but what can you do?

4,000 Irish girls aged 14 - 18 from post-famine workhouses across Ireland were sent to Australia to provide wives for the colonies and it is estimated 20% of the current population of Australia can be traced to this event.
I didn’t know that ,

What I am seeing here is that a lot of British posters are imposing their view of how people should understand culture onto another country. They come from a country that is fundamentally a monoculture with one race and people that has dominated not only their own land but many lands for hundreds of years. So of course you think that your way is the only way and although you allow other groups in, you still maintain that colonialist mindset. The U.S. is a nation that WAS a colony. We were the back office of your imperialist project and were constantly receiving multiple streams of immigration. So we have always had to live with and understand cultural differences within our borders. That duality is a fundamental part of American identity in a different way than it was for the UK. And yes, it is different than it was for Australia and Canada, because they remained under your yoke for so much longer, and have not developed distinct identities of their own for as long or as powerfully.

@MissConductUS

When I was in in the US in Oct 2019, the US news channel I was watching led on a Harry and Meghan tour story. This is like two weeks before we could have crashed out of the EU. If the goal was 'world news' it was gobsmacking they chose that item.

Media outlets have different audiences. CNBC would have covered the EU story and not H&M. It's also about attracting viewers. H&M are entertainment, not news, and most Americans aren't that fussed about Brexit.

@MissConductUS This was one of the major networks, their nightly news. I can't remember if it was NBC, ABC, or CBS. It was not something like Entertainment Tonight.

Americans aren't that fussed about Brexit. Why the hell would they care about H&M's South Africa tour??? If it's the first story and your theory that it would attract viewers, I think it does prove the point about the US being RF obsessed.

The story AFTER M&H was something about one of the investigations into Donald Trump. It absolutely the main news.

I think it does prove the point about the US being RF obsessed.

dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/obsessed

unable to stop thinking about something; too interested in or worried about something:

I think that most Americans are mildly interested in the goings-on of the RF or amused by them. I don't know any who are "obsessed".

lol.

yes, it is different than it was for Australia and Canada, because they remained under your yoke for so much longer, and have not developed distinct identities of their own for as long or as powerfully.

This odd idea that Canada doesn't have such a powerful individual identity as the USA is one I have come across before.
It is American exceptionalism at its finest.
The look on the Canadians' faces as it was explained to them by American the was quite something. I imagine that an Australian might also have the same look.

@verymiddleaged

yes, it is different than it was for Australia and Canada, because they remained under your yoke for so much longer, and have not developed distinct identities of their own for as long or as powerfully.

This odd idea that Canada doesn't have such a powerful individual identity as the USA is one I have come across before.
It is American exceptionalism at its finest.
The look on the Canadians' faces as it was explained to them by American the was quite something. I imagine that an Australian might also have the same look.

Also this, x1000. This may have changed since I was growing up but neither Oz or Canada got much media coverage. I think awareness of/knowledge of the detail of either country is minimal.

@OVienna

lol.

Can you cite a different definition of obsessed?

Goodness, I can't be bothered.